Water vs oil in creating hamon

Hephaestos

Hephaestos

Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Messages
9
Hello,
I have a question towards creating a hamon line....
My knives and swords are usually made from steel that I pick up here and there... I judge the carbon content from the sparks that are visible when I grind at an edge of the steel.
My recent project is an early medieval seax that I forged from a huge old file. The carbon content is quite high, as it always is in files. The steel is great for knives, but on a sword like this, I fear it might get to brittle if I fully quench it. Also, differential hardening with its hamon line would make the blade more attractive. There have been investigations on such blades from archaeological context, which showed that they were indeed differentially hardened.
Now, finally I am coming to my question: Since the carbon content is high, will an oil quench suffice to create a hamon? I trust oil better than water on these high carbon steels, so I'd prefer an oil-quench... But will it produce a nice hamon? Can you say, that on softer steels you will need a more brutal quench, and vice versa?
I hope someone can help, thanks in advance.
 
Thanks for the heads up Keith.

Moving to shoptalk.
 
Other alloys play a larger roll than carbon, when dealing with a water quench.

Oil works for me :D

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Jesus Hernandez said:
I love the activities in that hamon, Don. Very interesting stuff above the more visible line.
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Don't add to his already big ego. Soon, he won't be able to get through the door, his head will be so swollen. :D:p

Kickass blade, as usual, big Don. :thumbup:
 
Why is it that every time you think you have something worked out. Someone like Don comes along and knocks you down a notch.
Don,that is awesome!
 
Jesus, thanks!

Danbo, my belly will always be larger than my head :D

Sharpe, thanks Man! But you can do it too.
 
Don, Someday you are going to have to do a thread on how you do the clay application. Your blades are absolutely wild.
 
Don,
Seeing a hamon like that makes me want to hang my head in shame. I second the tutorial idea, or you could just email me and let me know how the heck you get contrast like that. Do you paint that on with rust-o-leum?

It looks great
 
I do etch my blades a bit more than most. This gives a more dramatic effect.

It's not easy and I don't always get what I want and usually don't know why.

But this W2, and Park's 50, and 1450f, with just a bit of clay really helps :D
 
This is the best hamon I ever got. Oil quench. SO much action. I swear it looked liked the ocean rolling down towards the edge. Ive never been able to replicate the multiple, layered swirls above the main hamon:
hamon3.jpg
 
Awesome work as always Don. Truth be told, I keep your page in my favorites (sorry about the inevitable head swelling:D:D:thumbup:)
Do you paint on your hamon, if so how many coats do you recomend? Do you HT when still wet? Are your clay coats exact mirrors of each other?

Freaking nice hamon as well, David!! I'd be interested in your replies as well to previousQ's

Thanks,
Nathan
 
David, I remember that one, how could one forget? Very Cool.....

Nathan, I've never had the hamon follow the clay exactly, but the clay does effect the hamon. I go to the forge with the clay wet, it dries very fast this way :)
I'm surprise more often than not when I clean up a blade for a look. One thing I can say is, if a person does enough of these, a few are bound to turn out cool........
 
don....since we are on the topic of your wild hamons:eek:.....would u mind sharing some percentages with us.....do you often have to redo the same blade....does it come out great like 95 percent of the time....are u a hamon super-hero?.....do u keep track of how u do it and just repeat the same exact process or do u vary it depending on different circumstances?.....just curious....ryan
 
I put my clay on and dry with a torch. I try to keep the sides as symmetrical as I can. I used this analogy to someone a while back and it seems to work in visualizing:
-I think of a hamon like a thunderstorm where a hot front (heated, insulated spine from the clay) and a cold front (rapidly cooling edge being quenched) meet.
-That thunderstorm will not follow the clay line exactly, but the clay line "pushes" the heat against the cooling coming from the edge up.
-I picture that thunderstorm moving as the quench happens, freezing in time wherever the cold and hot front meet at the transisiton zone between hard and soft steel.

When I paint hamons on, I try to visualize how the clay will push the heat.

..or at least I tell myself that. Somtimes its so random that I think my attempts are all snake oil...
 
ryan9977 said:
are u a hamon super-hero?
Click to expand...

I can picture it now...flowing clay coated cape, jumpsuit with a big flame on it...a torch in one hand and a bar of steel in the other. Able to produce sunray hamons on ball bearings using only a bic and spit.:eek::eek:
 
hamon super-hero? NO But that's funny!:D

Folks, there really is no answer. Ya get what ya get, if ya don't like it, try changing things a bit.

Ryan, my hamon success rate on first quench is around 75%, better now than a few years ago. If I don't like what I see, I just re-clay and quench again.
On a problem blade, I usually hit it right the second or third quench, but have gone to five a few times and thown the blade out in the woods.:o Haven't done that lately though. Most of my early trouble was the steel but that's no longer a problem ;)
 
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