Waterjet Wanted

Archer Here

Archer Here

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
1,323
Hi all,
I'm looking into buying a waterjet cutter, to help keep up with my orders. Does anyone know some information on these? Do they make them not so industrial sized $$$$$$?

As you know, I only need something to cut out swords and knives. I get tired of buying bandsaw blades, and I need a little more speed in cutting them out.

Your advise would be appreciated.
Thanks, Chris
 
You might want to go to waterjets.org. If you cant find the information you need there, they have a contact form on the site to ask questions about waterjet cutters and the industry.
 
Big or small, they all need a 55,000 (±) PSI pump. The pump is a very significant portion of the overall cost.
 
Plasma is probably your best bet, the issue with any sized (table size) water jet is they all require the same cutter head. Which requires a huge amount of high pressure water to run, something like a couple of GMP at 40,000psi. I can't imagine they have small scale units, just because the power source requires about 40HP (35kW)
 
Yeah, you sure you need to skip past all the middle-of-the-road options like angle grinder, oxy/acy torch, plasma cutter... straight to the really big guns (waterjet)? :D
 
My buddy was looking into one a few weeks back. He talked to Dave at great lakes water jet and dropped the option due to high maintenance. If your really interested in one call Dave and learn as much as you can about water jet machines.

What bandsaw blades are you using, how many teeth per inch, what blade speed, what thickness steel, what alloy, are your chips powdery, coarse, or do they look burnt, do you use coolant, and do you break in your blades? With the right combo you should be paying $0.10-$0.05 per inch of 1/4" 1084 cut with a reasonable cut speed.
 
Thanks guys for your recommendations. Sounds like a plasma cutter would be the better option. I see there are a lot of different ones out there. Which ones would you suggest, that would put the least dent in my bank account? I used one a year ago but didn't keep it because it left such rough edges and I couldn't do angle cutting very well.
 
I personally like Miller machines you'll need the CNC table separately designed to hold a plasma cutter head.
 
You might be able to get a smaller set up if you use a laser or an electro discharge machine. The former works a lot like a cutting torch mounted on a computer controlled carriage. The latter moves a charged wire in a cooling solution. Good luck.
 
Edro20 said:
Here's an idea that I ran across a while back. I'm sure there are others out there as well.

http://www.torchmate.com/
Click to expand...

I've always dreamed of owning something like that, maybe a little smaller though. we had a cnc router in college and I always wanted to put a plasma cutter on it. one of these days when I have the time I'd really like to build a small cnc plasma rig. one of those and a vinyl cutter for etching templates and I'd be set :D
 
Archer Here said:
Hi all,
I'm looking into buying a waterjet cutter, to help keep up with my orders. Does anyone know some information on these? Do they make them not so industrial sized $$$$$$?

As you know, I only need something to cut out swords and knives. I get tired of buying bandsaw blades, and I need a little more speed in cutting them out.

Your advise would be appreciated.
Thanks, Chris
Click to expand...

You must be gearing up to do production.
Waterjet maintenance is expensive along with consumables. I've been doing it for over 10 years and it's not all it's cracked up to be as far as cost to own.
Plasma cutter is not the answer for heat treatable steel and stainless.
Shoot me a PM if you are serious, I might want to upgrade later this year.

H2Oknife
 
I have let this thread pass, but decided to kick in my thoughts.

This is one of those....."If you have to ask, the answer doesn't matter." situations.

A year and a half ago, you got into knife making. Now you want to spend from $100,000 to $1,000,000 for one machine, and go into full factory production..... because you use too many band saw blades?

One person can make knives, or can run a water jet business, but it is unlikely one would have time to do both. I bet many water jet guys wish they could kick back and make some knives, but the amount of cutting you have to do to make any profit takes all your time.

I don't know what you mean by "keeping up with your orders", but unless you are making more than a couple hundred knives a week, it would be much more cost effective to contract out the cutting. Most makers and even small factories who need lots of the same pattern do just that.

As to band saw blades, they should be cutting a lot of blades out before replacement if you are using Lenox or similar production blades ( the $5-10 blades are junk). A better saw may be a much more affordable investment ( and the answer to your problem). A good pumped coolant metal cutting band saw can be had for about 1% the cost of the cheapest water jet machine. For about 5% you can get a professional machine shop band saw.

Draw up your CAD files and send them to one of the folks who does water jet cutting and you should be able to have about 30,000 knife blades cut for the cost of a water jet machine ( ignoring the high upkeep cost). When those 30,000 knives are made and sold, that is the time to look into starting a factory with your own cutter. BTW, that would be about 100 finished knives a week for a year solid. So, when you can make a quality knife start to finish in 20 minutes, think about getting a water jet machine.

There are laser cutters and water jet cutters who will give you a ready to grind blank for only a few bucks a piece if you get them done in batches of 100.

Just being a Dutch Uncle,
Stacy
 
Bladesmth,

Very well said. I've owned the from $165 to $800K and it can be very stressfull! You are correct on the waterjet guy wanting to kick back and make knives. I also used to tune and repair marine propllers for fun a few years back, before the fab / machine shop business.

H2Oknife

bladsmth said:
I have let this thread pass, but decided to kick in my thoughts.

This is one of those....."If you have to ask, the answer doesn't matter." situations.

A year and a half ago, you got into knife making. Now you want to spend from $100,000 to $1,000,000 for one machine, and go into full factory production..... because you use too many band saw blades?

One person can make knives, or can run a water jet business, but it is unlikely one would have time to do both. I bet many water jet guys wish they could kick back and make some knives, but the amount of cutting you have to do to make any profit takes all your time.

I don't know what you mean by "keeping up with your orders", but unless you are making more than a couple hundred knives a week, it would be much more cost effective to contract out the cutting. Most makers and even small factories who need lots of the same pattern do just that.

As to band saw blades, they should be cutting a lot of blades out before replacement if you are using Lenox or similar production blades ( the $5-10 blades are junk). A better saw may be a much more affordable investment ( and the answer to your problem). A good pumped coolant metal cutting band saw can be had for about 1% the cost of the cheapest water jet machine. For about 5% you can get a professional machine shop band saw.

Draw up your CAD files and send them to one of the folks who does water jet cutting and you should be able to have about 30,000 knife blades cut for the cost of a water jet machine ( ignoring the high upkeep cost). When those 30,000 knives are made and sold, that is the time to look into starting a factory with your own cutter. BTW, that would be about 100 finished knives a week for a year solid. So, when you can make a quality knife start to finish in 20 minutes, think about getting a water jet machine.

There are laser cutters and water jet cutters who will give you a ready to grind blank for only a few bucks a piece if you get them done in batches of 100.

Just being a Dutch Uncle,
Stacy
Click to expand...
 
All,
I'm getting about 7 swords out of each saw blade, which is pretty good. About 75 inches per sword (504 inches per saw blade). I'm just wanting something faster. I can assure you I was not planning on spending 100,000 to a million dollars. I was thinking more of the lines of 2 to 3000, and if that wasn't possible I wouldn't be getting it.

Yes, my business has picked up a lot. Getting internet orders from around the world and now dealers. I don't like turning away work, so I was wanting something faster. (That's all).

But thanks for the advice everyone.
Chris
 
Hey Chris,

you can have those waterjet locally and it would save you some serious time and money.

Give Ethan at C and R Metalworks (they're over off of Division St.) a call and tell him Jared sent you. They do
waterjet cutting, are very reasonably priced, and are a bunch of nice guys.
 
Not to be disrespectiful but you can buy a load of garnet for that kind of money but the waterjet is going to have to be a pressure washer.
I have open time on a good machine if your interested.

Best Regards,

H2Oknife

Archer Here said:
All,
I'm getting about 7 swords out of each saw blade, which is pretty good. About 75 inches per sword (504 inches per saw blade). I'm just wanting something faster. I can assure you I was not planning on spending 100,000 to a million dollars. I was thinking more of the lines of 2 to 3000, and if that wasn't possible I wouldn't be getting it.

Yes, my business has picked up a lot. Getting internet orders from around the world and now dealers. I don't like turning away work, so I was wanting something faster. (That's all).

But thanks for the advice everyone.
Chris
Click to expand...
 
Hi Friends,
I meant to get back to you all on what I ended up doing. I checked out Jered’s friend downtown, and he quoted me about $10 to $15 per sword plus a setup fee for each new design. Nice guy, and seemed to have a pretty fair price. Only thing, I wasn’t looking forward to having to travel back and forth every time I needed something cut out. I ended up buying a plasma cutter for about $900 from Grizzley. I have to say, it is by far the best investment I’ve ever made. That thing is fast and cuts fantastic. Just today, I cut out 8 swords (40 feet of steel), in about 4 ½ hours. A ton faster than using my angle grinder or band saw. Plus, I save $ on band saw blades or cutting discs.

Thanks everyone for your input. Several of you mentioned plasma cutters, and several sword makers did on another forum as well.

Chris
 
IIRC you should be leaving at least an 1/8" on any side to grind off when thermally cutting your steel. If you grind or forge down your edge without removing the slag on the sides you'll likely get a poor edge quality.
 
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