Waterstones are frustrating me:(:(:(

Z

Zeasor

Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
386
I just got a set of 3 King waterstones (800, 4000, 6000 grits) and a nagura stone to give waterstoning a try. I soaked them, created a slurry, and kept them wet while I stroked and stroked and stroked (at the count of 3 you will open your eyes and feel wide awake) and then stroked some more. The 800 gave me an edge that had potential for keen sharpness. The 4000 and 6000 polished the bevel shinny to an edge that will painfully shave a single arm hair here and there.:grumpy: Shinny but not very sharp.:mad: My old carborundum stones and hard Arkansas stone created sharper edges on the same knife than these waterstones. Even my old crock sticks yielded better results. Is this the best I can hope for with a 6000 grit waterstone? Do I need to use expensive bottled water?:) Is there a secret incantation I missed? Please help me become sharper.:confused:
 
what do you mean by potential for keen sharpness, was ti shaving arm hair at 400 grit?
 
From 400 to 4000 is a huge jump. 1000 to 4000 is lot saner. Very little difference between the 4000 and 6000.

Things I'd recommend are: FLATTEN the waterstones and DO NOT raise a slurry. Also, make sure your edge is shaving to hair-popping sharp on your coarsest stone before moving to anything finer. You can get a shaving edge from a 120 grit stone, so everything above that should be sharper still.

My biggest error with waterstones over 2000 grit is rounding off the edge. Actually, that happens at 1000 grit if I don't pay attention. Pressing too hard and not taking the time to move smoothly are how I usually round off the edges. Don't know what you're doing, but please don't do that.
 
400 grit is really heavy for initial sharpening. Even on my very dull knives I rarely need anything more than my 800 grit.

250-400 to me are for thinning, or re-profiling.

With a very dull knife I start with a 800. After initial profile I move to a 1000, and finish polishing with a 4000. Drag accost a charged strop for a few passes, and taahh daaahh. Shaving a gnats a$$.
 
you aren't holding your mouth just right. remember to twist the tongue when using those stones.
 
thombrogan said:
Things I'd recommend are: FLATTEN the waterstones and DO NOT raise a slurry.

My biggest error with waterstones over 2000 grit is rounding off the edge. Actually, that happens at 1000 grit if I don't pay attention. Pressing too hard and not taking the time to move smoothly are how I usually round off the edges. Don't know what you're doing, but please don't do that.
Click to expand...

Why don't use you a slurry with your whetstones? Is it just when you're flattening them, or when sharpening your knives?

As far as rounding off the edge, do you mean convexing the secondary edge bevel?

I ask because I use the slurry to aid in cutting/polishing the edge, and I convex most of my knives. Found they last longer with a "Moran" edge or convexed secondary bevel.
 
tarmix101 said:
Why don't use you a slurry with your whetstones?
Click to expand...

With King and Norton waterstones, a slurry tends to dull the knives more often than it sharpens them. Especially if the slurry is from a $5 nagura stone. A lot of extra time spent for worse results.

tarmix101 said:
As far as rounding off the edge, do you mean convexing the secondary edge bevel?
Click to expand...

I'm talking about the bad rounding. When I don't screw up my edges and they're done freehand, they're convexed no matter what I do.

tarmix101 said:
I ask because I use the slurry to aid in cutting/polishing the edge, and I convex most of my knives. Found they last longer with a "Moran" edge or convexed secondary bevel.
Click to expand...

Whether flat or slightly rounded, those secondary bevels give strength where it's needed most. I like how they're built-in with a convex edge.
 
thombrogan said:
With King and Norton waterstones, a slurry tends to dull the knives more often than it sharpens them. Especially if the slurry is from a $5 nagura stone. A lot of extra time spent for worse results.
Click to expand...


Huh. I'll give that a shot. I don't have any problems as of now using the slurry, but I have never rinsed my stones clean to compare. If it speeds things up, great.:thumbup:
 
BINGO!!! I eliminated the slurry and the edge is shaping up. No more playing in the mud for me.:) Thanks one and all.

Now, anyone know how to quickly grow more arm hair??? What about getting a short-haired dog?:)
 
Zeasor said:
BINGO!!! I eliminated the slurry and the edge is shaping up. No more playing in the mud for me.:) Thanks one and all.

Now, anyone know how to quickly grow more arm hair??? What about getting a short-haired dog?:)
Click to expand...


Rogaine, perhaps?:D Or you could wear shorts when you sharpen & test your edges on your legs.;)
 
When ever you have a slurry, or a soft stone (that you can scratch with you blade), use only trailing edge strokes as if you were using a strop.
 
HoB said:
When ever you have a slurry, or a soft stone (that you can scratch with you blade), use only trailing edge strokes as if you were using a strop.
Click to expand...

Doing things backwards. Now that's a skill I have keenly developed. LOL
 
Broos said:
Get a loupe and you can get better feedback by seeing the edge.
Click to expand...

So, seeing dull could make me sharper? There's hope for me! Oops, I mean there's hope for my knives. LOL

What's a resonable price for a loupe and where might I find that reasonable price?
 
With King and Norton waterstones, a slurry tends to dull the knives more often than it sharpens them. Especially if the slurry is from a $5 nagura stone. A lot of extra time spent for worse results.
Click to expand...


I gave it a shot last night on two old laminated Moras I have in the garage for garbage duty. Bothy were equally dull according to my highly scientific "thumb checking" technique. ;)

Not sure it it's my technique, the kind of steel, or maybe the grind, but I get better results WITH the slurry than without.

It was faster, I had a better polish, and a finer edge in the end using the slurry.

Haven't tried a blade with a edge bevel yet (these I brought back to zero edge bevel for working wood).

Not saying you are wrong, just might be me, or the knives I was sharpening.
 
tarmix101 said:
I gave it a shot... Not sure it it's my technique, the kind of steel, or maybe the grind, but I get better results WITH the slurry than without........
Click to expand...

Were you using a King or Norton waterstone? Did you use a cutting (edge leading) or stroping (edge trailing) motion?
 
Zeasor said:
Were you using a King or Norton waterstone? Did you use a cutting (edge leading) or stroping (edge trailing) motion?
Click to expand...


I use King Brand. 250/800/1000/4000 grit stones. I almost alway use a trailing motion unless I'm doing initial thinning or re-beveling. I then use a back and forth motion to start.
 
tarmix101 said:
I use King Brand. 250/800/1000/4000 grit stones. I almost alway use a trailing motion unless...
Click to expand...

AH-HA! I was using a King 800 with a leading motion into the slurry with lousy results. I'll try the trailing motion. Thanks.
 
Zeasor said:
AH-HA! I was using a King 800 with a leading motion into the slurry with lousy results. I'll try the trailing motion. Thanks.
Click to expand...


It's fun trying different techniques, but if you found one that works.... stick with it.

For me it's important to keep my stones flat and in good order, and take my time. If I rush things, thats when it goes bad for me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top