Waterstones are frustrating me:(:(:(

[HoB]

I agree with tarmix, when cutting in a new bevel or doing some larger repair work, I use back-and-forth strokes because you are working almost twice as fast and the final condition of the edge is not established yet. But in the final honing step I use only a trailing edge motion (this is on waterstones).

On a very hard hone, such as a ceramic hone or some oilstones, there are times though when I prefer a leading edge motion. You really have to try both to figure out what works best for you.

 

[sodak]

BINGO!!! I eliminated the slurry and the edge is shaping up. No more playing in the mud for me. Thanks one and all.

Now, anyone know how to quickly grow more arm hair??? What about getting a short-haired dog?

Just shave your wife's back like I do...

I gave it a shot last night on two old laminated Moras I have in the garage for garbage duty. Bothy were equally dull according to my highly scientific "thumb checking" technique.

Not sure it it's my technique, the kind of steel, or maybe the grind, but I get better results WITH the slurry than without.

It was faster, I had a better polish, and a finer edge in the end using the slurry.

Haven't tried a blade with a edge bevel yet (these I brought back to zero edge bevel for working wood).

Not saying you are wrong, just might be me, or the knives I was sharpening.

I know what you mean. I have some very expensive Belgian Coticule stones that I try to use with a Nagura slurry for my straight razors. Everyone else in the universe uses them as the final sharpening before stropping and shaving. Whenever I do, I dull the snot out of my razor, I have to use other means. I'm not doubting that others can do it, but I can't. Go figure...

 

[thombrogan]

BINGO!!! I eliminated the slurry and the edge is shaping up. No more playing in the mud for me. Thanks one and all.

Glad it worked for you! When your edges get even sharper (Monday if you have the holiday off or by next Friday at the latest), you can take hair out of your wife's hairbrush and try whittling it. And you can 'hide' your sharpening mange by touching the edge of your knife to your arm hair and pull upward to whittle off a slice. Yes, you'll have slit ends on your arm hair from it and Pantene won't help (or will it? Hmm.... )

Get a loupe and you can get better feedback by seeing the edge.

I looked at the edge of my jackknife with my daughter's magnifying glass (she's a super-spy) and that little bit of magnification was very helpful (and SO much easier than using my Radio Shack pocket microscope...). Thanks for you tip to Zeasor! I'm stealing it!

What's a resonable price for a loupe and where might I find that reasonable price?

You can get a $10 pocket microscope from Radio Shack and get the hang of using an inverted image or you can buy a magnifying glass from the dollar store (the ones at the 99 cent store just aren't as good ).

I gave it a shot last night on two old laminated Moras I have in the garage for garbage duty. Bothy were equally dull according to my highly scientific "thumb checking" technique.

Not sure it it's my technique, the kind of steel, or maybe the grind, but I get better results WITH the slurry than without.

It was faster, I had a better polish, and a finer edge in the end using the slurry.

Haven't tried a blade with a edge bevel yet (these I brought back to zero edge bevel for working wood).

Not saying you are wrong, just might be me, or the knives I was sharpening.

Well that's very neat! I've heard that the 800 grit King is much muddier than the 1000 grit King. Maybe the mud is an engineered thing to help you hurry with its slurry?

I use King Brand. 250/800/1000/4000 grit stones. I almost alway use a trailing motion unless I'm doing initial thinning or re-beveling. I then use a back and forth motion to start.

I use back and forth to raise a burr and then a ton of trailing to remove it.

If I rush things, thats when it goes bad for me.

Same here! And since waterstones are so quick, the tendency to get greedy and go quicker is quite a temptation!

Glad to read Zeasor is getting sharpzors and I have new things to try! Many thanks to sodak and HoB for chiming in here, too! (Your ideas - I'm stealing them!)

 

[tarmix101]

)



I looked at the edge of my jackknife with my daughter's magnifying glass (she's a super-spy) and that little bit of magnification was very helpful (and SO much easier than using my Radio Shack pocket microscope...). Thanks for you tip to Zeasor! I'm stealing it!

Hahhh.:thumbup: I use my 7 yo Daughter's bug catcher kit. It comes with a plastic tube with a magnifying lid to hold the captured bugs. My Daughter is not a "super-spy", she's Steve Irwin (RIP) in a pink Barbie dress.

I was thinning the edge down on a Queen D2 steel Sodbuster for a furum member that bought it from me. Not sure why it made a difference really, but it seemed to me a clean stone made the thinnig proccess go a little faster than other D2 blades I've thinned.

Might be in my head, but I don't think so......not much there to begin with.

 

[Zeasor]

Thanks everyone for the help. I am holding out hope that I and my waterstones can make "sharp" together. This means that 2 dulls make one sharp.

Hey Thom

...When your edges get even sharper (Monday if you have the holiday off or by next Friday at the latest), you can take hair out of your wife's hairbrush and try whittling it...

Sounds like you found my wife. Tell her Bad-Odds-Blackie (her bookie) and Jimmy-The-Cuffs (her parole officer) are looking for her. If she is living in a 15 foot travel trailer, tell her I want my home back.

 

[Broos]

Lots of good advice here!

Doing things backwards. Now that's a skill I have keenly developed. LOL

Here's the belomo triplet I use - relatively cheap & works pretty good.

http://www.ambericawest.com/loupe.html

Here's another nice looking one, but I haven't heard as much feedback about it:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...=1,43456,43351

A number of times I thought a knife was sharp, then looked at it with this, and saw there were still sections of the edge that still needed work.

I'd like to get one similar to this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-Digital-Mic...ryZ58192QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Stick with it and you'll get 'em sharp as a gnat's a** (I believe that is around one micron!). And I'm glad I could help, Thom! Still diggin' that little M2 cutter you gave me, Bro!

 

[thombrogan]

Did the handle hold up? Made one the same way for another penpal and the handle broke. Then again, I met him at Justin's forum, so maybe he's just used to knives being indestructible.

 

[Broos]

It started to come off a little, and then I took the rest off. Just recently. If I would have been a litle more careful it would still be on there... I cut/score kydex with it, and it's a great little shop knife. I got a few more M2 knives afterwards! Thanks again!

 

[TALON158]

Very useful thread as i just bought a bunch of waterstones..
Do I just use the trailing motion on my convex ground blades or can I use them for my v-ground blades as well?
Thanks

 

[HoB]

The trailing motion has nothing to do with convex or non-convex edges. If you push on a soft waterstone, the edge will bite into the abrasive, just as it would on a strop. You may not even really feel it, but you are already shaving abrasive, which is of course detrimental to the edge. Furthermore, if you have lots of slurry, you are plowing right into it.

 

[Broos]

If you push on a soft waterstone, the edge will bite into the abrasive, just as it would on a strop. You may not even really feel it, but you are already shaving abrasive, which is of course detrimental to the edge.

And you can harm the waterstone by cutting a nice gouge in it.

 

[tarmix101]

The trailing motion has nothing to do with convex or non-convex edges. If you push on a soft waterstone, the edge will bite into the abrasive, just as it would on a strop. You may not even really feel it, but you are already shaving abrasive, which is of course detrimental to the edge. Furthermore, if you have lots of slurry, you are plowing right into it.

HoB hit that one on the head. I put a nice gouge in my 4000 grit right at the end of the stone. I fixed it by flattening the stone, but I don't recommend edge first stroke with a high grit stone.

 

[TALON158]

Thanks for the info guys...
Would you recommend a trailing motion for a 400 grit stone as well?

 

[Zeasor]

Thanks for the info guys...
Would you recommend a trailing motion for a 400 grit stone as well?

My new 800 grit stone was a disappointment (especially with a slurry) until I started using a trailing stroke which now produces a keener edge (than with a leading stroke). I have been accused of being a backward sort of guy and I guess this confirms it. The same held true for 4000 and 6000 grit stones.

 

[HoB]

Thanks for the info guys...
Would you recommend a trailing motion for a 400 grit stone as well?

That is a grit that you should only use to rip in a new bevel or fix significant damage to the edge. At that point it is irrelevant whether you push or pull because you really are not in the process of establishing a keen edge. I do both (back-forth) for efficiency. Also at this grit the stones tend to wear fairly quickly, meaning they have a soft bond, but since the particles are so large, it is much more difficult to cut into them, they feel a lot harder than the finer grits, so plowing is less of an issue.