Waving Spyderco Knives - Without Machining

W

Wrangler

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Mar 24, 2003
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Thought I might share this for those of you who've never seen this. I've owned Spydies for 15+ years and have never seen this.

Just went to a knife store and saw someone do it and it works well. I'm talking about "waving" your knife by fastening a plastic zip tie through the hole and the spine of the blade with the end of the tie facing up and against the spine of the blade. The excess tie is then cut off. Basically this creates a little wave "hook" from the zip tie that allows the knife to be opened from the edge of a pocket like any emerson knife with a wave hook.

I tried this with my yojimbo and it's great! Anyone else see this done before?
 
You can search through BF for "zip tie", and find that it has been going on for years..
 
Done it. It works. Nice thing is once you're tired of it you just cut it off.
 
I ziptied an Endura a few years ago. Works great. In fact, at times I think it worked even better than my commander.
 
FYI - creating a "wave" without a license from Emerson is patent infringement.


35 U.S.C. §271. Infringement of patent

(a)
Except as otherwise provided in this title [35 U.S.C. §1 et seq.], whoever without authority makes, uses, offers to sell, or sells any patented invention, within the United States or imports into the United States any patented invention during the term of the patent therefor, infringes the patent.
 
i would think you would be hard pressed to say that attaching a zip tie to your knife constitutes patent infringement against the Emerson wave. sure they accomplish the same thing, but then again on the same coin so do thumb studs vs. spyder holes.
 
Aa has been stated before, copying any patented thing is legal as long as you do it for yourself and not for others for profit. Wave away, just don't charge to modify other's knives.
 
I don't understand why anyone would be hard pressed to say that "waving" any knife doesn't infringe the wave patent. What else would it be?

According to the law as quoted above, if you make or use a patented thing, it's patent infringement. There is no "personal use" exemption with patents - that's only in copyright law. So, you might not get sued for creating a wave with a zip tie, but that doesn't mean it's legal.

As for the thumb stud vs. spyder hole thing, the spyder hole was protected by a "design" patent which only prevents someone from making, using or selling a similar looking thing - i.e. a knife with a round hole. A utility patent, like the wave patent, protects the holder against things with similar functions, even if they don't look the same.
 
ok then i use the zip ties to hold notes on my knife...its purely by accident that it catches on my pocket and opens up. ;)
 
There's no intent requirement for infringement. From my reading of the above U.S. Code section, as long as you make or use what's patented - even once, you're infringing, no matter how you try to characterize it. The only two defenses are that the patent is invalid or that the patent's "claims" don't cover what you're doing. According to USPTO.gov, Emerson's wave patent (no. 5,878,500) most broad claim is:

"1. A self opening folding knife and holster assembly, which comprises:

an elongated handle;

an elongated knife blade having a sharp first edge and a second edge opposite said first edge, a tip end and a base end;

hinge means connecting said base end of said knife blade to said handle for movement between a first position with said sharp edge abutting said handle and a second position extending away from said handle;

releasable means for locking said blade in said second position

a slot along a side of said handle for receiving and housing said one sharp first edge of said knife blade when said blade is in said first position; and

a generally hook-shaped projection formed as part of said knife blade and substantially coplanar with said knife blade;

said projection extending away from said second edge adjacent to said base end;

said hook-shaped projection extending toward said tip end; and

a holster for receiving said knife, said holster including at least one inwardly extending abutment configured to be engaged by said projection as said knife is withdrawn from said holster to rotate said knife blade from said first position to said second position. "



That's a lot of words, but I think the key is the "hook shaped projection." If you make a folding knife with a projection on its top, and that projection can be used to open the knife, you infringe the patent. Now I'm no expert so this my interpretation is subject to debate, but I don't see how pretending you're doing something is going to save you legally.
 
"a generally hook-shaped projection formed as part of said knife blade and substantially coplanar with said knife blade;"

I am not an expert on US patent law either, but it seems to me that a plastic ziptie tied to the SPyderhole cannot possibly be "formed as part of said knife blade". One would have to look at Emerson's patent specs itself to make sure of this rather than relying on the USPTO abstract, but if the claim is too narrow to cover a ziptie, then it would therefore not be infringed.

As well, what about the long-discontinued Talon, which had a bottlecap opener prong that looked identical to the Wave hook? Didnt it pre-date the Emerson patent aplicaton?
 
I think that technically it is patent infringment, however they can only sue you for the ammount of money that you made.
 
A zip tie is not a hook shaped projection, nor is it formed as part of the blade. No infringement, "technical" or otherwise.
 
I guess we could argue technicalities forever. For me, it comes down to this question: "are you using someone else's idea?" If the answer is yes, then I think it's patent infringement. And, to me, spreading information about how to take advantage of someone else's invention without giving them their due is not ethical. I think Yester5 put it best - if you want a wave, buy an Emerson.
 
No Avatar said:
I guess we could argue technicalities forever. For me, it comes down to this question: "are you using someone else's idea?" If the answer is yes, then I think it's patent infringement. ...I think Yester5 put it best - if you want a wave, buy an Emerson.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Patents are precise for a reason. If somebody comes up with an idea that's functionally different, it deserves its place in the market. The issue with thumb studs above is that other companies made plenty of use of them while the opening hole was patented. By your logic, it'd be unethical to do so, because they'd be "using Spyderco's idea" of one-handed opening.

You're confusing the "idea" of a hook-shaped portion of the blade (which is patented) with the "idea" of a blade that opens in the draw (which isn't). People've been making folders that open in the draw for decades. One of the knife mags had an article last year by a gentleman who "waved" his lockback in the '60's by wedging a piece of matchstick under the kick so that the point was exposed on the closed knife. The point caught on his pocket in the draw, and opened the knife. There was just a post on the General forum last week about Buck 110 "quickdraw" sheaths, which do something very similar.

The problem here is that you're looking at Emerson's proprietary "hook-shaped portion of the blade", and at a "homebrew application of a box-shaped piece of plastic to another company's proprietary opening mechanism that achieves a similar result but is less reliable and is removable", and saying "they do the same thing, so it's patent infringement". Patent infringement isn't "doing the same thing", it's "doing it the same way".

Look at it this way: when Benchmade patented the Axis Lock, did that prevent other companies from making locking knives? I mean, c'mon, that's what the Axis Lock does, isn't it: locks the blade open? Isn't Spyderco taking Benchmade's idea when they make the Paramilitary? ;)

Again, the _device_, which is protected, versus the _result_, which isn't.
 
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