Ways around a big knife or axe...

S

sh00ter01

Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
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EDIT 8/26/14: Going to bump this as I think it's a good topic and wanted to see if any of the newer members here had anything to add. Remember, this isn't a "small knife vs. big knife and axe" thread or as a "hey, if you know these technique then there's no need for a large blade/axe" thread. Rather, I meant for it to be more of a "knowledge is power" kind of thread:thumbup:


So I was watching a recent video by JungleCrafty on splinting wood without an axe (video), and it got me thinking about ways around having to carry a large knife or axe for common camp/hiking/outdoor needs (processing fire wood, making shelter, etc.).

I like the idea of starting to split using the knife and then finishing using just the baton and some wedges (though I've never tried it). I have though, on more then one occasion, used a baton to pound a small blade cross grain through wood in lieu of having of chopper.

So what are some techniques you guys have used with small fixed blades (or folders:D) to get around not having a bigger blade/axe?

-sh00ter

Edit: Sorry if this was covered before and I missed it, couldn't find much with the search but then again I never have much luck with it.
 
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The method of with the saw can be used with a knife batoned cross grain, though the depth of cut will be dictated by the width of the blade.

Using a wedge is pretty effective.

I'm sure you've heard of breaking branches between 2 trees.
 
You can split wood by whacking it hard over rocks or using leverage by bracing it against the fork of a tree.
 
batosai117 said:
That had to be one of the coolest things I've ever seen done with a saw :D
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The method is actually more effective if you turn the piece 180 degrees so the cut side is down. It's the one skill he does poorly IMO. :D

On a side note. What's with the jungle craft guy? Did he have a bad bout of malaria? He's a skeleton.
 
This log was 8 ft. long at the start. Just put the end in or , make a star fire.
WolfLakeAug2011039.jpg
 
sh00ter01 said:
So what are some techniques you guys have used with small fixed blades (or folders:D) to get around not having a bigger blade/axe?

-sh00ter

Edit: Sorry if this was covered before and I missed it, couldn't find much with the search but then again I never have much luck with it.
Click to expand...

If you are going to build a log cabin from scratch, then start by taking the right tools along for the job; take an axe, a saw, and hammers - it is safer and more efficient that way. Otherwise, fire making materials can usually be collected by hand. You do not need to process a major log to do that.

n2s
 
blademaster01 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcRYSFqjLgY
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That's pretty cool:thumbup:


dogstar said:
The method of with the saw can be used with a knife batoned cross grain, though the depth of cut will be dictated by the width of the blade...
Click to expand...

I wonder if the process could be repeated multiple times per side, going back and forth until you'd processed the entire log.

I'm also curious how well it works with real knotty wood.

dogstar said:
...I'm sure you've heard of breaking branches between 2 trees.
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I have indeed:thumbup:

Shotgun said:
The method is actually more effective if you turn the piece 180 degrees so the cut side is down. It's the one skill he does poorly IMO. :D

On a side note. What's with the jungle craft guy? Did he have a bad bout of malaria? He's a skeleton.
Click to expand...

So cut side down you say, good to know.

Don't know, he is rather skinny, seems healthy enough though in the vids (physical strength and such), maybe just his build.

hiwa said:
This log was 8 ft. long at the start. Just put the end in or , make a star fire...
Click to expand...

So, how long does an 8 ft log burn:confused::D

not2sharp said:
If you are going to build a log cabin from scratch, then start by taking the right tools along for the job; take an axe, a saw, and hammers - it is safer and more efficient that way. Otherwise, fire making materials can usually be collected by hand. You do not need to process a major log to do that.

n2s
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Didn't really want this to turn into a "right tool for every job" thread. Rather, I'd like it to be a tips and trick around not having the right tool for the job kind of thread:D

Just thought it'd be an interesting thread topic and good source for tips that could really come in handy and possibly save your a** at some point.

-sh00ter
 
sh00ter01 said:
I wonder if the process could be repeated multiple times per side, going back and forth until you'd processed the entire log.
I'm also curious how well it works with real knotty wood.
-sh00ter
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It can be repeated. The trick is to start with a long piece of wood. The shorter it gets the more force is needed to split it.

To be honest I've only played with it a few times to get the feel for it. I can say that when I tried doing this method with a 6 ft christmas tree, it broke rather then split. So maybe that's how a knotty branch would react but I'm not sure.
 
Dry wood splits differently than moist wood. Also, different species of wood split differently. They also burn at different rates depending on these factors. No big knife or saw? Whittle hard wood wedges and drive them in to split the wood. Often on really dry downed wood, you will find natural checks and cracks that you can expand.
 
The wood splitting with a folding saw from Ray Mears is really nice. I've used it several times, but type of wood, knots and humidity of the wood determines how well it works. Preferably I create a small notch with my saw (or knife) and then split the log with a wooden wedge.
Link below shows a nice video of this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7AxOHzBNck

Well when I have a small axe with me I tend to use that of course ;) Although for splitting the long logs I like to use (wooden) wedges.
The video below shows a method for splitting wood with a folding knife. I've also split logs with a small folder as well, but then I always create/carve a wedge. When splitting (multiple) logs entirely with a folder will sooner or later bust the pivot point of your knife. And if that's the only tool you've got... so wise to use a wedge. In order to split the log I create a notch with my folder as shown in the first video and then use the wedge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH-yPC1XOtg

As suggested by Codger_64 it useful to make use of natural cracks as well. I've also used stones as wedge/knife to create a notch and split wood. And you can use a fire to burn a long log in 2.
 
My better half and I have used and practice this saw trick for some years now. Being senior citizens, we don't have the oomph anymore to go packing axes and large heavy knives. Nor do we want to, just to hard to use with the arthritis. But a folding saw makes life a lot easier on us old folks. Saws, folding and the Sven, have become part of our outdoor kit.

Carl.
 
Codger_64 said:
Dry wood splits differently than moist wood. Also, different species of wood split differently. They also burn at different rates depending on these factors. No big knife or saw? Whittle hard wood wedges and drive them in to split the wood. Often on really dry downed wood, you will find natural checks and cracks that you can expand.
Click to expand...

Oh I'm aware of this, having a wood burning stove I split several, several cords a year.

Exploiting existing cracks; a good idea that may not even require the use of a blade beyond carving the initial wedges:thumbup:

crafty said:
The wood splitting with a folding saw from Ray Mears is really nice. I've used it several times, but type of wood, knots and humidity of the wood determines how well it works. Preferably I create a small notch with my saw (or knife) and then split the log with a wooden wedge.
Link below shows a nice video of this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7AxOHzBNck

Well when I have a small axe with me I tend to use that of course ;) Although for splitting the long logs I like to use (wooden) wedges.
The video below shows a method for splitting wood with a folding knife. I've also split logs with a small folder as well, but then I always create/carve a wedge. When splitting (multiple) logs entirely with a folder will sooner or later bust the pivot point of your knife. And if that's the only tool you've got... so wise to use a wedge. In order to split the log I create a notch with my folder as shown in the first video and then use the wedge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH-yPC1XOtg

As suggested by Codger_64 it useful to make use of natural cracks as well. I've also used stones as wedge/knife to create a notch and split wood. And you can use a fire to burn a long log in 2.
Click to expand...

Good vids, I also like this one, where he use a longer carved wedge so he doesn't run into the problem of bottoming out without a finished split.

Seen stuff about using a fire to cut larger logs, but have never tried it.

jackknife said:
My better half and I have used and practice this saw trick for some years now. Being senior citizens, we don't have the oomph anymore to go packing axes and large heavy knives. Nor do we want to, just to hard to use with the arthritis. But a folding saw makes life a lot easier on us old folks. Saws, folding and the Sven, have become part of our outdoor kit.

Carl.
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This bring up another point, energy exertion/requirement for different methods/techniques. Any time your saving energy is a plus in my book.:thumbup:
Though I do enjoy chopping it up sometimes:D

Good stuff guys, keep it coming.

-sh00ter
 
For clarity, this is not me. It's just a good video I found on youtube.
[video=youtube;N-WuP-xYlnc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-WuP-xYlnc[/video]
 
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I always have a folder on me so I practice with what I would have on me at all times. I do like the method shown in the Izula video above only after the initial love tap with the blade on the wood, I remove the folder lifting by the rear of the handle to the front (keeping the pressure on the stop pin and not against the lock) and then finish with a wedge :thumbup:

I use folders a lot because in Boy Scouts growing up that is what we primarily used and always had with us.
 
WOW. :eek:

17 responses and only two have shown the links to the techinques that are talked about.

How come most respondents haven't shown their own pics or videos showing they put their own advice into practice?

Or is it a case of simply regurgitating the advice of others?



Kind regards
Mick
 
SouthernCross said:
WOW. :eek:

17 responses and only two have shown the links to the techinques that are talked about.

How come most respondents haven't shown their own pics or videos showing they put their own advice into practice?

Or is it a case of simply regurgitating the advice of others?



Kind regards
Mick
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I haven't hung out in W&SS in quite a while but if memory serves me well I recall you making posts like this in the past and it may just be how you talk or how I read your words, but you sound condescending and rude IMO.

If you must know I'm at work, patrolling, and don't have the ability (I do but I can't use it) to post a video of myself batoning through a piece of wood and using a wedge carved/chipped off by my folder. I haven't made a video of this in the past either because off duty my only camera is my cell phone and I can't hold that and use both hands to tap into a piece of wood and follow through holding a wedge in my left hand and baton through with the other.

That's my reasoning, I don't see your video posted yet...
 
sh00ter01 said:
:DThat's actually the exact video I linked to in the post right before your's:D

-sh00ter
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Great vid! It's actually the exact method I use when having a small fixed blade. When I use my folder I'm a bit more gentle on the blade and use the method that's more similar to the first vid I posted (but I use a carved wedge then usually as well).

yup efficiency and saving energy is very important. Every log you carried/processed and didn't use is a waste, but overtime I'd like to go crazy and do some good work out when processing wood with an axe and saw ;)

When I go backpacking/camping/hiking I'm limited in tools I (can) carry with me, but I've always a folder with me and preferably a small (4 inch) fixed blade. Additionally I take a saw or axe, but that depends on the occasion and other gear I need. I find a multitool also quite useful to bring. Some time ago I was doing some mountaineering, so was fully packed with gear (but no axe/saw/fixed blade) and had only a safety knife on my climbing harness. At a certain spot we found the opportunity to make a fire and I used my piolet/ice axe to split some wood. Worked quite well actually :)

There are often limitations in the tools one can bring, but there is no reason for limitations in the techniques you know (and skills you master). Just go out there, be creative, practice, enjoy and don't forget your safety ;)

@SouthernCross: With respect to posting my own movies. Have been thinking to create a series of them, but there are already so many good ones around. So why put the credit to myself instead of referring to them? Honestly it can be useful if you just refer to a technique of someone else which you don't master at all, could just be an interesting point of view which you want to share with others and hear their opinions about. I don't see the problem saying "I saw this blabla... but haven't tried yet, what do you think". I've more problems with the many (unfortunately even more) bad movies that exist on youtube which try to imitate someone to get the credit, while they actually don't master the skill at all.
 
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