Ways around a big knife or axe...

Where I was camping this weekend, the average temperature was 19 degrees F and there was little to no accessible small wood for kindling. Since the ground was frozen and everything was covered in a foot of snow, it meant alot of little stuff was necessary for building a fire. This meant chopping down a bunch of 6 inch thick lodgepole pines and doing a LOT of splitting. I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to pry open frozen pine with my bare hands when it is 19 degrees outside. Besides, there's more to bushcrafting and survival than just making a fire out of wood. Often, making your own tools, traps, shelters etc are required and there's a lot more that goes into woodcraft than just burning a long stick in half.
 
Good thread, sh00ter (well, at least the original version of it :D). Because of this thread (and the video of the guy chipping out that CS leatherneck, heh) I started experimenting with wedges this weekend and learned a lot.
 
Good thread, sh00ter (well, at least the original version of it :D). Because of this thread (and the video of the guy chipping out that CS leatherneck, heh) I started experimenting with wedges this weekend and learned a lot.

Well then I'm glad I started it:D:thumbup:

How did working with the wedges go?

-sh00ter
 
Last weekend I was busy outside and found a large fresh cut oak branch. The branch was about 5-6 inch thick. Wanted to play around with it a little so decided to baton through it (with my 4 inch blade :D) to get a small log. Then remembered this thread and thought, why not splitting it with a wooden wedge. Carved a wedge from a stick and made a slit in the log with my knife (just 1 hit with a baton on the spine of my knife). Placed the wooden wedge and started splitting the log. In the beginning the log was stripping my wedge a bit, but I could easily fix it by cutting away the stripped part (while the wedge was still in the log). Since it was fresh wood it was a bit more tough than dried wood, but it worked great. The wedge I carved from the stick is the standard type of wedge I normally make for splitting logs. But then I use dried logs for splitting of course ;)

edit: yes I know it's a bit contradictory to baton first through it and then split it with a wooden wedge to save your knife ;)

Here are 2 pics I took with my phone:
wedge2.jpg

wedge1.jpg
 
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I havent actually tried this, but how about making the wedges out of dry/hard wood for splitting the log?
 
This technique is probably not news to many, but I have another small knife--->big job technique that might fit here. It was discovered out of bordem. DerekH and I were in the woods together a while ago, and we were discussing different techniques, so I wondered what would happen if you sliced thru a branch with the same shape cut as if you were chopping it.

Basically, slice a V shaped notch in the wood, deepen and widen it. And then rotate it, kinda like a beaver chews.
The funny part was that he started chopping at the same time I started slicing (same type knife) and I finished way first and with less effort. It looked like this:

Chopping:
6348631108_70290ccf2f_z.jpg


Slicing:
6347785311_5347be2864_z.jpg

It was hard to photo this while we did it, so if you need clarification, please ask. :thumbup:

Please keep in mind: I'm not saying it's the end-all-be-all hot new woods technique to show your friends at your next party :) But it was a head-to-head comparison of two different ways to skin the same cat. And I thought the v-slices or "beaver slice" was effective enough of a small knife technique that someone might find it useful; be it for making traps, shelter, or whatnot.

hope this helps!
-Pointy
 
I havent actually tried this, but how about making the wedges out of dry/hard wood for splitting the log?

Normally I just make a wedge from a stick that's laying around, in most cases no need to carry along. If it breaks or gets damaged I reshape it again or just carve a new wedge, easy and fast job. I've also applied some "tempering" with a fire to make the tip more hard/durable. But that's only useful if you already got your fire going and stay eg. more days at the same place.

Ray Mears shows "tempering" for tent pegs in his video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCQyOAUODlM
Just go to 4:56 min.
 
I havent actually tried this, but how about making the wedges out of dry/hard wood for splitting the log?

If you have it lying around ,thats fine. Green is ok too you will just have to touch up your wedge more often.


These shots are from when I showed my son how to split wood when you only have a SAK.

carved a wedge

100_1797.jpg


Used the saw to make a notch.


100_1798.jpg


100_1800.jpg


100_1804.jpg
 
Glad to see people still adding to this thread:)

Nice SAK wood splitting tutorial dayhiker1968:thumbup: I love the saw that Vic uses. A lot of guys use theirs for only small branches but I've used my Vic Farmer to saw through larger diameter branches by just rotating throughout the cut.


I also know a lot of guys shy away for serrations, especially a fully serrated edge, but they can act as a saw and make quick work of smaller limbs, etc.
I used my Pacific Salt SE to down a small unwanted tree in the hedgerow by "sawing" out wedges until I had cut all the way through. Sure a real saw would have been better, but I don't carry one as part of my EDC and I was pleasantly surprised at how quick the spydie edge got the job done.

The pic is deceiving as the knife is closer to the camera, but the tree was about 2" in diameter.
1314814415.jpg



Great post, Keep'em coming guys:thumbup:

-sh00ter
 
I hate big knives...they are good at one thing. They are heavy and do zero fine work. I find them to be a novelty at best...just my opinion so no offense. I took my junglas on a trip and wish I had not! It was just too big! Same for me with an axe. After a few trips I narrowed down what I found to work. I use a sven saw, my A1 (baton), and a para-mil for everything else. I have also used my ESEE 4 as well in place of my A1. Chopping with a big blade is time consuming and burns energy. I did a test with my sven saw and junglas...sven won hands down! It took less time and work to cut the logs into the right sizes and it was far safer and easier! I took my Wetterling axe with me on another trip...it is big and heavy...well not as big as a forest axe or felting one...but big enough to be a hindrance. It was limited to what I could do as well, I have the large hunting axe. With the saw I would cut down the sizes I wanted for firewood and then split (baton) them with my A1. A trail blazer is a great way to go also, they pack up small and they work far better then you think. There is the argument about blade breakage...bring an extra they fit in just fine...I am yet to break one.
 
Been a while, but I'm going to bump this as I think it's a good topic and wanted to see if any of the newer members here had anything to add. Remember, this isn't a "small knife vs. big knife and axe" thread or as a "hey, if you know these technique then there's no need for a large blade/axe" thread. Rather, I meant for it to be more of a "knowledge is power" kind of thread:thumbup:
 
Where I was camping this weekend, the average temperature was 19 degrees F and there was little to no accessible small wood for kindling. Since the ground was frozen and everything was covered in a foot of snow, it meant alot of little stuff was necessary for building a fire. This meant chopping down a bunch of 6 inch thick lodgepole pines and doing a LOT of splitting. I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to pry open frozen pine with my bare hands when it is 19 degrees outside. Besides, there's more to bushcrafting and survival than just making a fire out of wood. Often, making your own tools, traps, shelters etc are required and there's a lot more that goes into woodcraft than just burning a long stick in half.

Agreed. I am aware of the splitting with wedges, splitting with saw use etc. All this stuff is good and handy info. But when it is -20 or -30 out I have limited time and physical dexterity for much of this stuff. In weather above or just a bit below zero I'm ok. The really bad cold is much more of a challenge for me personally. I am on the weak side in getting a speedy fire up when materials are ice covered\frozen\glued with crusty snow etc. I have learned a lot from the folks here, but deep winter is my own personal challenge. I stumbled across smashing my materials with the back of an axe\hatchet, possibly my only original thought through all this. But I have not fully worked out how butt smashing materials is fully utilized in extreme cold to expedite my fire making. I still need practice and to fully exploit my fire making tools\skills in extreme weather. It's the friggin cold that gets to me quickly. Maybe just bringing some prepped materials is an alternate way around this dilemma. Time is needed to process materials, but time is against me because of the intense cold................
 
So what are some techniques you guys have used with small fixed blades (or folders:D) to get around not having a bigger blade/axe?

Packable buck and folding saws work for me when I really need a larger chopper but don't want to carry a larger axe or knife.




 
So what if I didn't pack a saw?

There is always the beaver cut to break a stick.



As stated in another thread leverage is useful to break up firewood.

"Give me a place to stand and with a lever I will move the whole world.” - Archimedes.

 
There is always the beaver cut to break a stick.


I've used the old 'beaver chew' method many a time to cut down sticks to length. Little more time consuming then a swift cut with a bigger blade but still effective.

Snapping bigger limbs in between two, or in the Y of, trees is always good too:thumbup:
 
The "Beaver Cut" method or lateral batoning puts the least amount of strain on the knife
All the pressure is directly on the spine blade above the cut and no pressure on the handle
I find fast light tapping with mallet stick to be as effective and speedy as heavy blows
Basically using the knife as a chiesl with a mallete
All the notch cutting skills can also be done this way, with simple taps on the knife spine


And a small Opinel folding saw is a major tool when used correctly, from splitting, notching and rounds
 
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Packable buck and folding saws work for me when I really need a larger chopper but don't want to carry a larger axe or knife.






The sawvivor is one of the greatest camp tools I own. I've carried it every time I go out in the woods for the last ten years at least. It weighs nothing and cuts like a champ. I haven't seen to many of them lately. Great tool!
 
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