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We are experiencing some delays due to heat treat

Discussion in 'Carothers Performance Knives' started by Nathan the Machinist, Jul 18, 2018.

  1. Nathan the Machinist

    Nathan the Machinist KnifeMaker / Machinist / Evil Genius Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 13, 2007
    Heat treat is one of the most important aspects of a highly optimized high performance knife. We develop our optimized heat treat here and are capable of running heat treat here, but our "good" Lindbergh Blue oven is too small for our choppers and our "not as good" big Evenheat really isn't very even and our cryo chamber isn't capable of large batches and our heat treat process is time consuming and filled with bottlenecks. The reality is, as we've gotten bigger we're unable to do our own process here in the scale we need. Despite being metallurgy nerds we are not a commercial heat treat shop and in my opinion trying to extend ourselves into an area that isn't truly our core competency will lead to unnecessary compromise.

    Our process is not easily duplicated at other shops. I've attempted to qualify other shops and none but Peter's is capable, and even then it took development and changes to their process to duplicate it. As a result, despite the fact they are a large organization, our process runs on very specific areas in their shop and part of that is a specific oven and that oven has been down for rework.

    We have four batches there now and two more staged here ready to go. This is quite a back log.

    We owe people Competition Cutters, HDFK pre-order and Behemoths. The purpose of this thread is to communicate there is a logjam and it involves their knives. I don't see any problems completing the work by the end of the year, so I believe we will meet our commitments, but instead of the even distribution we'd wanted it's probably going to be more of a "spurt".

    There are some other options and work-arounds, but I'm not comfortable pursuing them. Heat treat is not an area where I want to take risks so we're going to wait.

    Due to Jonny's upcoming competition on KOD we're prioritizing a batch of Behemoths to be the first blades to be processed, hopefully in about ten days.

    I will update this first post with information as it becomes available.

    Update 7-30-18:
    Peter's is starting to move again.

    We got three 12" BC squeezed through the process and hardened. They arrived here on Friday and they're ground and in tumble now. Two are for Jonny and the KOD show, one I guess will go to the pre-order. There are approximately 140 more waiting for heat treat but about half of those should be heading back our way soon. The Competition Cutters are next in line after that.

    Update 8-9-18
    Half of the BC have arrived from heat treat and we're processing them now. Also, the Comp Choppers are back and I will get back to finishing out a few every week.
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
    azwelke, PolRoger, Mo2 and 39 others like this.
  2. Grenock

    Grenock Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Apr 7, 2016
    I liked the post because I appreciate how open and up front you always are Nathan. I don't like its content, not for delay of any knives I am waiting on, but because of the stress I know it causes you and the team. We are all fine on this end brother, we will wait as long as it takes.
    David45, Siddhant, gusbuster and 14 others like this.
  3. xxwarderxx

    xxwarderxx Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 27, 2015
    I don’t mind the delays personally.

    I must say I am grateful for the transparency and appreciative that I can take you at your word. I can personally attest that it is not always the case with all knifemakers.

    You truly run a first class operation not only from a product perspective, but also service.

    Thank you for the update.

    CPKer for life. :thumbsup:
    Siddhant, stjones, gusbuster and 9 others like this.
  4. JJ_Colt45

    JJ_Colt45 Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 11, 2014
    Hate to see you having the issue ... but the fact you came out and disclosed it fully just raises my respect for you and the CPK team ...

    it's the honesty and openess that you share progress and set backs with all of us that has earned you a life long customer ...

    oh and there is that part that your knives just plain kick ass also.

    thanks for the information Nathan ... and yes get Jonny's chopper done I'd put any of my wish for knives on hold to make sure that one gets done!

  5. Casinostocks

    Casinostocks Factotum Platinum Member Gold Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    In agreement with the sentiments and the opinions above my post by other CPK'ers and I also truly appreciate your transparency in those production matters which are beyond your direct control.

    I do have a Q with respect to these sentences in bold:

    The batch of BCs which you are prioritizing, are those are going to be HT'd at Pete's or in-house?
    gusbuster, Mike157, Odog27 and 4 others like this.
  6. evltcat

    evltcat Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 7, 2011
    Open, honest communication is what separates CPK from a LOT of other knife makers I've dealt with.
    Realistic expectations = loyal, happy, long term, repeat customers.

    I hate delays like everyone else, but heat treat is the soul of the blade, and is nothing to be trifled with.

    Thanks Nathan!
  7. Dawkind

    Dawkind Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Apr 3, 2000
    I’ve never been in a hurry for The Best....my Grandma always said that good things come to those who wait.

    Thanks for the heads-up my friend.
    Siddhant, gusbuster, Mike157 and 6 others like this.
  8. duramax

    duramax KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Nov 29, 2012
    No rush here :)
    Thank you for the update
  9. PeteyTwoPointOne

    PeteyTwoPointOne Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Jun 10, 2014
    no worries...can't rush a good heat treat, that's a fact!

    The "D" in D3V doesn't stand for "Doughy"... I ordered my BC's Well Done
  10. TRfromMT

    TRfromMT Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 4, 2016
    I think if you started a poll, the top ten rank responses would be:

    Get Johnnys knife done.
    Thanks for never compromising.
    Go have a beer on us.

    That's not even ten. But that covers it.
    untytled, xxwarderxx, CataD and 15 others like this.
  11. David Lennon

    David Lennon Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 26, 2017
    I like how you do business, it's better to tell people straight if there is a problem, these things unfortunately happen. It will all work out in the end .
  12. G-Rob-D

    G-Rob-D Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 4, 2016
    Not a problem here. I already have a HDFK to beat on, so the second one is just gravy. :D
  13. woodysone

    woodysone Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 21, 2005
    Good on you Nathan for keeping us informed on what it takes to provide close to the perfect blade, yes it's going to take a little longer but now we know why.
  14. - SpyderMan -

    - SpyderMan - Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 28, 2015
    Thanks, Nathan. It’s all good! :cool:
    Odog27 likes this.
  15. Siddhant

    Siddhant Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 25, 2018
    “A patient man is always richer than an impatient one, even if the patient man has less money. Why? The patient man can always afford to wait. The patient man is never desperate. The patient man has time to spare. While the man in a hurry is always on the verge of bankruptcy as far as time is concerned.” – Jim Rohn

    Can I have my knife now? :)o_O

    For real though, thank you for the update and integrity :thumbsup::thumbsup: ....and GO JONNY!!!
  16. fonedork

    fonedork Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 7, 2011
    Could you run a super indulgent special sale to get you a really kickass oven, better than the one you use at Peters? Like an exclusive run of 4” integral daggers or something.
    Torrin and PeteyTwoPointOne like this.
  17. Ajack60

    Ajack60 Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Apr 21, 2013
    With the back log, are you going to be able to include some of the HDFK's in the Friday sales or do you plan on filling orders first ?
  18. Elgatodeacero


    Jan 5, 2014
    for me, just do it the way you think it should be done.

    Id rather wait for things to be done right than pressure you to take shortcuts, workarounds, or other compromises.

    You told us all end of the year, so anything before Christmas is an extra joy!

    Thank you for the candid update and interesting details of the business, contractor issues, etc.

    Sounds like most businesses.
    Odog27, David Lennon and Siddhant like this.
  19. Lorien

    Lorien Moderator Moderator

    Dec 5, 2005
    my Grandma always said- Be good! If you can't be good, be careful
  20. Dawkind

    Dawkind Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Apr 3, 2000
    Sooooo, what happened? :D
    Odog27 and Mike157 like this.

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