We do not haggle on pricing

[Lodd]

Another perspective:

http://menwithpens.ca/hate-to-haggle/

Thank you for posting this. I don't see anythign wrong with haggling, as long as it's done respectfully. Asking to haggle in itself isn't disrespectful, and neither is politely declining to haggle.

I've got plenty of experience haggling in my work. In my experience, haggling often leads to advantages for both parties. In a constructive dialog it is often found out that both parties have something to offer to one another.

Besides, when it comes to bigger projects, both commercial and public, there is a usually a formal bidding procedure where price and services rendered are compared for multiple providers. If you cannot be competitive, you will lose that procedure.

I realise that most of this may not be applicable to knifemaking/selling, but I humbly disagree with the notion that haggling is universally evil.

 

[Fiddleback]

Thanks James. I came by your table at Blade, but you were two customers deep, so I slid by without stopping. Proud to see you doing well my friend.

Thank you for posting this. I don't see anythign wrong with haggling, as long as it's done respectfully. Asking to haggle in itself isn't disrespectful, and neither is politely declining to haggle.

I've got plenty of experience haggling in my work. In my experience, haggling often leads to advantages for both parties. In a constructive dialog it is often found out that both parties have something to offer to one another.

Besides, when it comes to bigger projects, both commercial and public, there is a usually a formal bidding procedure where price and services rendered are compared for multiple providers. If you cannot be competitive, you will lose that procedure.

I realise that most of this may not be applicable to knifemaking/selling, but I humbly disagree with the notion that haggling is universally evil.

Great post. I love to haggle at garage sales and car dealerships. Thats neither here nor there. In this business I have developed symbiotic relationships with many great dealers. Part of my end of the bargain is to never undercut those folks. The second reason is that I know from running this business, in a black and red kind of way, exactly what we have to get from the knives in order to stay in business. It makes setting the price a lot easier than a craftsman with a few knives.

I also acknowledge the ire it draws from the artisan. Man its hard to put a price on your work, and its a touchy feeling when someone questions it. It gives the knifemaker dueling feelings of desperation to make the sale and the desperate need to make a wage doing this craft. Its a pit of the stomach feeling and the craftsman feels like he is under a thumb. Basically I haggle at garage sales and car dealerships and antique shops. At shows, I haggle with dealers. But I do not haggle with artisans who have set a value on their work. If I feel it has value to me, then I pay what the man has set on his time. I'm not saying haggling is evil but I do think it is inappropriate at times.

I've met teachers, lawyers, doctors, etc that I thought weren't worth much and would have liked to haggle with them on their value rather than pay full price. It wasn't appropriate then either. Maybe we should go to universal haggling. But we don't here at Fiddleback Forge.

 

[crex]

Entitlement is a "man made" concept and has been around since the beginning. There are those that do, those that can't and those that won't - will always be that way as long as man walks the earth (or stars). It's part of the fabric of our life. Seems worse these days, but so do a lot of other things. It is not reasonable to blame it on any given generation. History repeats itself everyday because most won't study and understand the what's and why's....too self incremenating (gheeze I can't spel inymor!)

True craftsmen have always been sought out and will always be sought out. Used to be to obtain quality tools for quality work. Now with mass production, etc. it's become more of an appreciation thing, just the way it is. We like to think we search for quality because we work our butts off and need these tools/items. Not really true, we have it better and we don't work as hard as our ancestors to live and survive.

I am fortunate enough to get to work with and teach many kids some of the rudimentary skills of my profession. Almost every time the focus and desire of the ones that truly want to learn are the direct results of the influence of their parents or other significant adult(s) in their lives. I have been blessed with good friends and reasonably good health that have allowed me to do this - share my knowledge and skills with future generations.

Andy is no different, probably why we get along so well. He just has more patience with adult knuckle heads than I.

We form the future, we can't fix the past......so quit complaining and get doing!

 

[Tim the Wizard]

We form the future, we can't fix the past......so quit complaining and get doing!

Well said Crex.

I appreciate the commitment to teaching from you and from Fiddleback.

 

[Kirkwood]

I've met teachers, lawyers, doctors, etc that I thought weren't worth much and would have liked to haggle with them on their value rather than pay full price.

Do it! Our clients haggle with us ALL THE TIME. It's become the norm. It's surprising when a client pays a bill without first asking us to cut our rates or take a discount.

 

[Shamr0ck]

You are entitled to what you can earn and defend. Period.

LOVE the simplicity of this quote and agree +100

 

[bonafide]

Entitlement is created by behavioral shaping - either in mentoring/teachings or allowing bad behavior to go unchecked from Parents/Guardians/Society. That's not objective unreasonableness. That's a in the field case study. Offering opinions on current generations from your hermit cave? .. seriously? smh.

I offered my opinion based qualified personal experiences of dealing with Elementary, High School, College students .. 30-somethings with starter families, 40-50 yr olds in the apex of their careers/life/family, retirees who are just settling into their relax life modes .. and even invalids .. on a daily basis. Not the 1% POS of those generations. Normal folks. Yes, every generation goes thru multiple mental stages in life .. HOWEVER .. this current 'millennium' Milley Cyrus/Justin Bieber generation is absolutely horrible (in my opinion) when it comes to an 'entitled attitude'. People should be given an award every day they don't throat punch one of them for their ridiculous public behaviors. I don't care where the blame is cast but it has definitely festered in the last 5-7 years. As a group .. not an individual - their crass behavior has reach a level of absurd. It's no where near the same levels as the previous 18-25 yrs from 10yrs, or from 20 yrs ago .. both of which I was dealing with on the exact same levels of engagement. They have no willingness to earn respect or learn hands on experiences that take time and dedication .. they want you to click a button and make it happen. Now. Give it or I'll block you, ridicule you, or attack you. AND .. these levels of bad behaviors have started seeping into other (older) generations - under what I assume is frustration from trying to play by the socially acceptable rules they were taught but they're tired of losing out to rudeness.

Want an example .. that @#%# who races past all other traffic and refuses merge in a polite manner during lane closures.

 

[Brendanruch]

The over generalizations that you're making are unnecessary. Is there an epidemic of whiny little brats in your area? I am not a tolerable person when it comes to entitlement and I've met very few people over the last few years who have acted the way you describe. I spend 8 months out of the year attending college and I guess you could say "there's one in every crowd" but instead you called us the Miley/Beiber generation. They are famous because of their shock value not because they are the norm. I appreciate American Craftsmen and am lucky enough to own a few Fiddlebacks and some other handmade goods that I cherish.

 

[Bubba Sr]

Bonafide is spot on. I see it everyday at work. Not just sometimes all the time. It is invariably the millenial generation for over 90 percent of the time. Also proof is every young person on here getting butt hurt over Internet posts. That would be a product of the same generation where everyone gets a trophy. You can't make critical remarks or it will hurt someone's feelings.

The over generalizations that you're making are unnecessary. Is there an epidemic of whiny little brats in your area? I am not a tolerable person when it comes to entitlement and I've met very few people over the last few years who have acted the way you describe. I spend 8 months out of the year attending college and I guess you could say "there's one in every crowd" but instead you called us the Miley/Beiber generation. They are famous because of their shock value not because they are the norm. I appreciate American Craftsmen and am lucky enough to own a few Fiddlebacks and some other handmade goods that I cherish.

 

[Guyon]

What is the current goat rate? Will you accept half a goat?

 

[Scotcha]

Man its hard to put a price on your work, and its a touchy feeling when someone questions it. It gives the knifemaker dueling feelings of desperation to make the sale and the desperate need to make a wage doing this craft. Its a pit of the stomach feeling and the craftsman feels like he is under a thumb. Basically I haggle at garage sales and car dealerships and antique shops. At shows, I haggle with dealers. But I do not haggle with artisans who have set a value on their work. If I feel it has value to me, then I pay what the man has set on his time. I'm not saying haggling is evil but I do think it is inappropriate at times.

Well put. 100% agree

 

[Cdmayhem]

This is an awesome argument. "The millennial generation is entitled. If you disagree, that is proof that I am right. Your only course of action is to not disagree. Thus proving that I am right."

Bonafide is spot on. I see it everyday at work. Not just sometimes all the time. It is invariably the millenial generation for over 90 percent of the time. Also proof is every young person on here getting butt hurt over Internet posts. That would be a product of the same generation where everyone gets a trophy. You can't make critical remarks or it will hurt someone's feelings.

 

[FeralGentleman]

Feels good to be just shy of a millenial and not old enough to be part of the source of the assumed problem started by the baby boomers [emoji1]

 

[Jsega51]

The "entitlement syndrome" can't be pinpointed to one age range. It's in our society for sure, but it can't be placed solely on the shoulders of certain aged citizens. Yes, kids feel like they should be given everything. So do adults, look at any politician, all of Hollywood, Vegas and NYC as examples. It's a product of the instant gratification age that we all live in and everyone who acts this way learned it from someone. Whether it's from their parents, from seeing other people act this way or if it's just the shifting nature of society.

Irregardless of pointing the finger, it has nothing to do with the reason why Fiddleback doesn't haggle on pricing as was stated in the original post and a post or so since then.

I will agree though that every older generation experiences the turmoltuous nature of the next generation and says that we're all doomed. Fortunately there are many kids out there right now that are being taught good morals and a hard work ethic by their parents, teachers and other adults.

 

[Brendanruch]

Bonafide is spot on. I see it everyday at work. Not just sometimes all the time. It is invariably the millenial generation for over 90 percent of the time. Also proof is every young person on here getting butt hurt over Internet posts. That would be a product of the same generation where everyone gets a trophy. You can't make critical remarks or it will hurt someone's feelings.

It's hardly a critical remark if it's all bashing. It's funny to me when you older guys use terms like butt hurt as if we are on facebook or you're in high school. Your opinion or observation is superior to mine because you are older than me but you're clearly more immature.

Edited to add this gold

This is an awesome argument. "The millennial generation is entitled. If you disagree, that is proof that I am right. Your only course of action is to not disagree. Thus proving that I am right."

 

[Fiddleback]

Ok. Nobody cares about this shit.