we want the truth,we CAN handle the truth

S

slingblade

Joined
Sep 14, 1999
Messages
11
MIKE,i am anxiously awaiting the true story behind the mad dog knives.When can we expect the "REST OF THE STORY"?
 
No kidding. I thought that all would be made clear.
But seriously, whats " the rest of the story"?


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Shawn R Sullivan
~San Diego, Ca~
 
Perhaps the most energetic participants in the Mad Dog threads have left off arguing about tactical knives for a while, so they can have a relatively friendly and pleasant discussion of religion and politics.
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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
Ya know what we need? A nice long abortion thread to wash the bad taste away
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Jim
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Since you asked.
Three MD knives arrived at my clinic last Friday. They were from Walt. First generation ATAK2, second generation ATAK2, and shrike.
They were x-rayed at several angles and settings by my capable technicians.
It appears that on the first generation ATAK2, there is a notch on the spine of the tang, NOT on the end as shown in Mike's picture.
The 2nd generation ATAK did not have any notch, nor did the shrike.
The notch on the spine of the first generation was very shallow, only about 1+mm in depth. It was about 44mm from the start of the tang more prominant on the right side with edge down.
An x-ray of some 12 of Walt's MD knives came that was taken earlier. The notch was visible on that same knife in that x-ray.
ALL of the other knives were smooth and regular along the tang, but this one.
Those are the facts....

Now for the speculation, personally, I don't think the mark or groove is significant. Too small to indicate a cull IMHO.
But with such an eye for perfection as MD seems to have, how did this get there?
An accidental grind mark??
Who knows?
I will leave that up to you.

"Anyway, all for science and all that".
BTW, Walt,they will go out on Wednesday if not before.
Jim
 
I don't mean this the way some folks will take it, but what the hell is the big stink about a couple small nicks in the tang of a knife? Does it hurt the strength or usefullness of the knife? Will it cause the knife to fail under stress? I just don't understand it. Take care! Michael

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"Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!"
 
Hmmmmm. 12 or more Mad Dog knives X-rayed counting Walt's plus a couple of others. We have one nick on the top of a tang and no notches on the butt of the tangs. That versus the test ATAK and Namviet Vo's with notches.

What do you say Mike? Seems pretty inconclusive, but certainly no case to be made against the accuracy of Mad Dog's claim based on that evidence.
 
This is not the only issue that seems to have been dropped. We also were going to hear more on the MT issue a wile back. Too bad KF folded before we found out.
 
Jim,
I thought the MD thread WAS an abortion.
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Notches or nachos. Which is more important?

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Hoodoo

Doubt grows with knowledge.
--Goethe
 
Taking pictures of 12 Mad Dogs that were made after the one we have doesn't prove jack squat. After all, if it's not from the same time frame, and not made with the same methods, then how is a lack of tang marks going to prove anything? If they weren't partially machine made anymore, they probably don't have them.

Heck, I remember seeing all sorts of people claiming that they had shot xrays of their knives and didn't see anything, yet when we learned that you had to shoot them from an angle, everyone clammed up. Big suprise. What a shock.

Find a few knives from the same time period and we'll see what happens. Oh, and btw, make sure you ask just why he made two radially symetric notchs in the tang where it would be hidden instead of one single mark on the spine, where it would be visible. Be sure to ask him why he kept doing this even though he knew his knives were being stolen and finished. I'm sure you'll get a great answer.

This gets funnier and funnier.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Last week it was proof that Mad Dog was either a liar or a lousy knife maker, and most were arguing for both.

Now it has no significance at all.

Whatever. That's fine with me as long as it doesn't become significant again next week.

 
Spark,

In one of the previous MD vs. Busse threads on X-Rays I suggested you send the tested knife. To see how it looks under X-Ray as a control piece to see how it looks compared to others. We know how this one looks visually because the handle is off but how does it look under X-Ray?

Steve,

You sure sound relieved. You made a couple of posts questioning the need for X-Rays. Now you embrace them because they prove your point. Or, at least, throw doubt on the whole subject.

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"A knifeless man is a lifeless man"
-Nordic proverb
 
Most? I for one couldn't remember myself calling MD a liar or lousy knife maker. I just stated he was an *irresponsible* maker for not putting serious effort to replace that bottle opener. I believe that any other maker I dealt with would do so. That's the reason I decide to drop MD products from my buying list from now on. Simple POE applies.

What can I say about the chipping? Joe, Steve, Tim,etc. found it not chip, while Dr.Hood, Aubrey, Mike, etc. found it chip.
I respect all these people, so my only conclusion is either the quality control is unpredictable, at least for some period of time, or the latter group just got bad luck buying the counterfeits.

Thanks god we still have Busse's, Livesay's and TOP's, among others, who are more willing to satisfy customers. Get a Busse combat 7". It actually came first in a test. Above all, you could have one for half the price of the ATAK!

Now I guess I help make it become significant again, sort of.
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Dew.



[This message has been edited by Dew (edited 16 November 1999).]
 
Steve Harvey,

Might I remind you who brought up the notch story? Not me, it was Kevin McClung. I brought the issue to light and I still find it amusing that this is how he claims to mark a knife as defective.

Now all of this is now moot. A new ATAK is in route to me right now. When I test it what will that prove? Nothing again.

All I do is test the knives and show the results. Simple as that. Then my integrity is called into question, and I then answer all of your questions. I was one of the first to say that the X-Rays should be done. The facts speak for themselves, it is up to you to interpret them how you wish. I am tired of talking on this issue as is everyone else.

I am very comfortable with my test and I still back it. I will simply replace the results with whatever the new knife shows me. Till then all talk is cheap. Even Tim says the Busse is probably a better chopper based on it's design alone.

As far as the truth? Nope Steve, you can't handle the truth (TRUST ME) and I will not post it as it involves many issues not directly related to Kevin McClung's knives.

Kevin BETTER thank me for that. Not in public or private, just thank me. Or better yet he can publicly ask me to release any and all info I have on him. Should he choose to do so I will put together a long winded letter and post it.

I do own www.maddog-knives.com

It will sit there until I decide it is needed. Kevin McClung knows my number and I his. Should he have a problem with me and/or the information I have he can call. I have no problem with him so no need to call him. Just in case my number is 1-800-969-7771.

My full name is Michael Edward Turber.
Born 11/18/1966 in Weisbaden West Germany.
I am the only one with that name in the world so my history is not to hard to find.

I have nothing to hide. A quick run through NCIC and various other sources will provide insight into who I am and what I am all about. They don't give Top Secret C-6 level security clearances to everyone. I was electronic Intelligence in the Air Force (20590). Should that impress you? I hope not! But I sure could say a bunch of BS and say you can't prove anything because it was classified. Did I work on cool projects? Hell yes I did and I could say if I told you I would have to...... But that sounds like BS too.

Am I a rocket scientist? No I am an amateur Astronomer, so I guess Teryl's assessment that I am an amateur scientist was not far off base.

So I live a simple life, do what I can to make a living, and provide this playground at my expense.

So the choice is yours Steve, what do you suggest I do now? I have done everything asked of me and then some.

McCLung is a big Dog and he can talk for himself, unless of course if you are speaking directly for him?

I am sick of this whole issue. I have agreed to test a brand new Mad Dog. What will you say after that test Steve? Do you actually think it will beat a Busse in the tests I have set up? I doubt it, as it is not a chopper. If you want you can say I designed the tests to specifically make the Mad Dog fail.

Now I will drop the bomb.

I will test the Mad Dog, which is in route to me thanks to Walt Welch (what a guy!), directly against a Mission MPK.

I will announce the day of the test and you, McCLung and anyone else is welcome to witness the test.
Of course should the Mission win the head to head test I am sure you will have more to say
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But if the Mad Dog wins I am certain that something will come of that too. Who knows and who cares as I will be the one who knows the truth, and that my friend is what is important to me.

Oh yes, I could sabotage the test by doing something to the Mad Dog ATAK before the test! I forgot! Crap now what....

Well I promise to not throw wooden shoes onto the rice paper.


Do you think we will have this problem when I test factory folders Steve? Are you going to come to someone elses defense as you have done here? Just accept the tests and the FACT Mad Dog lost OK?


Have fun
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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!

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6 of one, half dozen of the other....

Steve, again, for the umpteenth time... hopefully you'll bother to read it this time.

It only really matters if we can get knives made from the same time frame, with the same production methods. If the notches show up during that time frame, then it shows that they aren't there because to show "reject" status.

Knives that were completely hand ground probably don't have these notches, though Allen said that they put notches on all 4 corners while he was there.

If the knife is from an earlier, or later period, when they weren't partially machine ground, then the notches in all likelihood won't be there. Why? Because they wouldn't be needed for the machine processes.

Regardless, there are still two problems: either
A. We aren't being told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth about the notches, or
B. There are a ton of Mad Dog rejects out there. They have been going out the door from at least 9 years ago if the age estimates on this knife are accurate. During this time, nothing about the "notching" method has been changed to stop these knives from getting out the door.

Believe what you want, Steve. No amount of facts are going to convince you otherwise it seems.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
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