"Weld Steel"

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soccergod04

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Apr 24, 2006
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I went to my local Lowe's hardware store and bought what was called "weld steel" in a bar 1/8th in. thick to make my first knife out of. I was wondering if anyone knew exactly what type of steel this was and what temps I should heat treat and temper it at. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Unfortunately, it may be mild steel. If you don't want to order from one of the online suppliers, go by a local steel dealer and seeif they have any cutoffs of 5160 leaf spring material.
 
99.99% sure it's mild steel (i.e. no good for a knife as it is).

The tag is probably an abbreviation, referring to a term these places like to use sometimes to describe their mild steel. They call it "weldable steel," which isn't very descriptive, after all.
 
that steel has it's uses - you can practice your grinds on it. but it is not heat-treatable and as such, is useless for for a real knife.
 
I wish mild steel from the hardware store could be counted on as being 1018, but I understand, you are just saying it's low carbon steel. It's more likely A36, a recycled steel which is similar in makeup I would imagine to rebar.
 
You can assume that all steel today is recycled .They've been recycling ever since the iron age started !! The point is how it's recycled. A36 if from a crappy Indian/Chinese mill will be junk. In any case the mild steel whatever the type or source won't be good for blades .Use it for grinding practice.
 

  • A fact that knifemakers might not know about recycled steel. Every bearing made in the U.S. is made from recycled steel. I would imagine that just about every bearing made in the world is from recycled steel.

    The fact that any steel is recycled or not makes absolutely no difference in the quality of that steel. Modern steel making facilities have the metallurgical labs to assure that the composition of the steel is accurate and the cleanliness of the steel is as good as it has ever been.

    There are two kinds of recycled steel that knifemakers use.
  • New recycled steel...This is any bar that you purchase from a steel or knife supplier. It's made into rounds or flat bars by the steel manufacturer and is intended to be finished by the knifemaker. These are "known" steels, they are not "mystery" steels and can be worked with confidence. They are still considered recycled steel because they have been recycled by the steel manufacturer. Each piece will have parts of cars, bearings, knives, files, etc., etc., etc. in it. The entire pile of steel that went into that round or bar was dumped into a furnace and melted down. Then the alloys were adjusted to make it into 52100, or 5160, or 1084, etc.
  • Old recycled steel...This is any steel that had a life between the steel manufacturer and the knifemaker, such as bearings, files, springs, etc. Sometimes this is mystery steel and might be more trouble than it is worth. Sometimes it is a known steel that can be worked with just as confidently as a "New recycled steel" can be worked with. If you understand bearing part numbers, bearings are "NOT" a mystery steel. If it is stamped 5160 on a load shaft it is not mystery steel. If it's a file from grandpas shop, it's mystery steel.

My advice is to stick to "known" steels that you can work with confidence. If you know what the steel is, then you can heat treat it properly with confidence. A mystery steel can ruin your reputation. Just because it got hard and passes minor cutting tests, doesn't mean that it will perform up to the expectations of a customer out in the middle of no where.

However, we have tons of articles, imperical data, and metallurgical experts that tell us how "known" steels will perform when heat treated properly. Which would you rather have when stranded in the middle of no where when it's snowing and you're cold and need to build a shelter. A knife made out of some "mystery" steel, or a knife made from a steel that you absolutely are positive will hold up to the job. I'd rather have the known steel. It will take an edge, it will keep that edge longer and it will be tough. There's nothing more disheartening than needing a knife in a survival situation, only to have the edge dull after a short time and then when you have to pry and beat it through the branches to make your shelter have it break.

I'm not saying that there is no place for mystery steel, I'm just saying that if you're going to experiment with mystery steel do the homework and testing before you let it out of your shop. Can you make a world class knife with mystery steel? Absolutely, but it takes a lot of time, energy and money that could be better spent learning on a known steel. A mystery steel takes a lot of time to figure out how to heat treat properly. The amount of testing required after making a knife out of "mystery" steel is time that could be spent practicing forging, grinding and finishing a known steel. Practice with mystery steel if you must. It's usually free and cheap. Learn to grind with it if you must. Learn to hand finish with it iym. Learn to forge with it iym. Don't learn to heat treat with it. Your name and reputation depend on it.

Okay, I'll get off of my soap box now. As you can tell, the Kevin Cashens' and metes' of the world have made me an advocate.

Ickie
 
Excellently stated Scott. Dan could you add this to the "new maker's" thread that's a sticky?

-d
 
Alright, so not good stuff or making a knife. Oh well, it was only like 8 bucks for a 3ft piece. Good enough to practice on since this will only be my first knife attempt.
 
I don't think I'm quite up to forging just yet... still learning to do a decent job of stock removal. I think the knife making bug's got me though. I just found someone on eBay that's selling some tool steel, hmmmm...
 
Alrighty, thanks for the advice guys! After I finish this pseudo-knife I'll have to get my hands on some real steel and try it out. Would O1 or D2 tool steel be bad for a beginner using stock removal?
 
O1 = GOOD, D2 = BAD (for a beginner that is) D2 is a fine steel but for a beginner O1 has a lot more going for it.
 
Go ahead and get some high carbon steel or some O-1. It's inexpensive, and a pretty nice useable blade may become the product of your practice. It may become disheartening to work so hard on a piece of mild steel...have it come out great...and not be able to do anything further with it.
 
I'd advise you start with 1080.
I am with psycho78 on not making "practise" knives from mild steel. What is the point. Use a simple carbon steel ,like 1080, and you will learn the exact same things, and have a real knife. Doctors start on cadavers because mistakes in the learning curve would be too costly on real people.Steel is more forgiving. Knife makers should learn on knife steel for several reasons:
1) You will be making knives from knife steel, so you should learn on it.
2) 1080 costs only a few cents more per blade than mild steel.
3) Heat treatment is the most important part of knife making, you can't learn anything about it with mild steel.
Stacy
 
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