Welding damascus on a rainy day?

S

sculver

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Jun 28, 2007
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A couple years ago I was having a discussion with two notable Mastersmiths and they told me that they never welded damascus on rainy days, because the weather could cause bad welds. I was a bit skeptical about this, but started to pay attention to weather conditions and my own damascus welding results. While I have welded perfectly good damascus on rainy days, the few times that I have had issues with bad welds have all been when I made damascus on a day when it was raining. Makes a guy go hmmmmmm…………. I'm still not sure that I buy into this theory, but I have to admit, my results are quite a coincidence.

So; are there any other bladesmiths out there who believe that the weather can affect welds? Does anyone know of any scientific evidence for this phenomenon? Would it be the humidity, the barometric pressure or something else that could cause welds to fail?
 
I don't run an athmospheric gas forge, but I recall people noting how they run
differently, with change in weather.
 
My blower-driven forge was outside under a carport. I noticed on more than one occasion that when it started raining heavily while I was working, the temp would shoot up at least a couple hundred degrees. The first time I noticed was because the thermocouple went from a very steady 2250F to defunct, as in ruined and sagged in the heat. :o So, I assume it went over 2500F with no changes whatsoever to the settings.

That type of change in efficiency may well signal some change in forge atmosphere. If one normally ran towards neutral instead of reducing, perhaps it could kick the atmosphere over into slightly oxygen-rich, which would inhibit welding?
 
Well, I have successfully welded structural and pipe underwater in salt and fresh water if that makes any difference or has any applicability to your question. I don't know if that has anything whatsoever to do with it but I thought I would throw that bit of info out there.
 
In western Oregon a smith needs to learn to forge weld on rainy days, lest all the forge welding be done 2 months of the year. The hottest months.

Gene
 
I don't remember any specific welding example but I have worked on a problem where casting on a bad day produced many defective parts due to voids .
 
I've had the same experience as Don.....I actually like the rainy/snowy days for forge welding. Maybe that it has something to do with the elevation I live at, and the higher humidity in the air on those type of days, but when its like that outside, I'm usually itching to get into the forging shop and make steel.....I never seem to have problems on those type of days.
 
Probably just a myth, two makers both had trouble on a rain day and got to talking about it, and the word just spread :)

Like Ed mentioned, elevation plays a roll. The higher you are, the colder your gas forge.
 
Don Hanson III said:
Probably just a myth, two makers both had trouble on a rain day and got to talking about it, and the word just spread :)

Like Ed mentioned, elevation plays a roll. The higher you are, the colder your gas forge.
Click to expand...

So the best place to run a forge hot is Death Valley? :)

I've welded in cold, hot, rainy, dry, and never had much of a problem. I never noted the forge running hotter in any given weather, but I tune the forge to what I need as I'm working.

-d
 
Some thoughts:

On a rainy day, especially one when there is a sudden thunderstorm, the barometer will fall. Lower atmospheric pressure makes the gas pressure from the tank relatively higher for the same setting - ( Fitzo's example).

The addition of water in the air makes it burn hotter. The greater amount of oxygen is due to the fact that dry air is 21% oxygen and water vapor saturated air is 30+% oxygen. The percentage goes up as the air pressure falls ( greater at higher altitude and lower barometric pressure).

On a rainy day,it is very hard to establish true north, thus resulting in improper molecular alignment of the iron atoms in the billet. ( Well, that was what Mark told me.)

Everything seems to suck on a rainy day. Why not blame your bad welds on it, too.

Stacy

(BTW, It is a rainy day today.)
 
so if its true that the forge gets hotter because of the rainy day why not induce that rain to the forge. get a humidifier and pipe it to the opening of the forced air blower. I know that back in world war 2 some fighter planes used water injection into the carburetor to get more horse power out of the engine.
 
While it certainly works, the damage of superheated water rich gasses on steel is probably not worth the few cents it will save. Same goes for the "miracle" water injection conversion kits for cars. If it did anything good, it would be on every engine out there. I have read posts stating that one pint of water will boost ten gallons of gasoline to raise the HP of your car 25%. They basically are a five dollar mister in the air flow path.

If you want to give it a try, use a small 3-6VDC desk fountain pump and a misting orifice for a plant drip watering system. Install it in your blower output pipe, pre-gas injection. I wouldn't try it, but it won't be my forge or blades that you are doing it to. Sort of like the waste oil forges....sure you can , but why would you. IMHO, it would create an oxidizing atmosphere that would be hard to control.
Stacy
 
I made damascus yesterday and it was raining, today it wasn't raining but the humidity was very high(warm and melting snow. No worries:D
I used to have bad welding days in the beginning, but not for a long time.
Del

But then I'm not a mastersmith either
 
Thanks for all of the replies.

I seldom have problems with the welds in my damascus, and I believe that the few bad welds I’ve had during rainy weather were purely coincidental. I’m not superstitious and not prone to subscribing to “old wives’ tales”. I have heard several smiths say that they did not weld on rainy days. So, I was curious how many folks thought that there was something to this.

Personally, if I had to blame the weather for bad welds in my shop, it would be more likely that I am distracted by the storm and not paying attention to my work. Kansas thunderstorms are rarely calm events. The torrential rain, high winds, lightning and tornado sirens tend to affect one’s focus.

Unless someone can provide scientific evidence to support a correlation between the weather and welding issues, I am inclined to call it a myth.

Hey, maybe we should send this to “Mythbusters”.
 
The man who taught me that the best days to weld were on those cloudy rainy/over cast days, when the barometer was on the rise.....at least thats what he claimed.

I usually just weld on the days i have something to weld, and kinda enjoyed working the forge when it's drizzeling out.
 
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