Well, I'm done

SC_Dave

SC_Dave

Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
187
I'm giving up on freehand. I have given it my all and I guess I'm one of those people that just don't get it. I kinda half-way got it on a set of DMT DiaSharp plates, I thought I would do better with a set Shapton Pro stones. Bought the 120, 320, 1000, 2000 and 5000. I have tried over and over and over and cannot sharpen freehand. Dozens here use them and have great results so I know it's me. No use fighting it any longer, no use experiencing the frustration.

I'm going to sell them or trade them for an Edge Pro and give that a try. Don't what else to do........

David :beaten:
 
It's all in the technique, I had troubles for a while with waterstones until I followed the Murray Carter method.

How long have you been consistently freehand sharpening?
 
Jason B. said:
It's all in the technique, I had troubles for a while with waterstones until I followed the Murray Carter method.

How long have you been consistently freehand sharpening?
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2 years at least. Mostly with the DMT plates. I only recently got the waterstones. As you might guess I am extremely frustrated and aggravated. I have watched 8 million YT videos and you guys have given me tons of advice. So apparently I that special kind of dumb you can only read about in medical books. :eek: I have watched some of MC's videos but I'm not sure what his method is.

David
 
You could buy a DMT Aligner clamp or the Razor Edge Systems guides to use with your stones. That might do it for you. It also might train your hands to freehand. Those would allow you to keep your stones and reduce the frustration.
 
wvdavidr said:
You could buy a DMT Aligner clamp or the Razor Edge Systems guides to use with your stones. That might do it for you. It also might train your hands to freehand. Those would allow you to keep your stones and reduce the frustration.
Click to expand...

Same thought here. Sometimes that's helped me when I've temporarily lost my feel. Using the guide helps to focus on aspects like regulating pressure, and tuning the speed & rhythm of stroke. Watch and feel what your hands are doing when using the guide, and repeat it enough with the guide to develop a sense for it. The hands will still 'learn' a lot of these things by sheer repetition, even when the brain seems not to be consciously aware of it.

Don't give up on it yet. Just take a breather (& try a guide for a bit, if you want), and let the freehand gear 'rest' for a bit. At some point, you'll find some inspiration to try something new with your technique, maybe something seemingly small; but it's often the small changes in technique that make BIG changes in results.


David (that's the 3rd of us 'Davids' to post here so far... :D)
 
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wvdavidr said:
You could buy a DMT Aligner clamp or the Razor Edge Systems guides to use with your stones. That might do it for you. It also might train your hands to freehand. Those would allow you to keep your stones and reduce the frustration.
Click to expand...

Thanks David, I'll look into those.

Bill DeShivs said:
Technique, not equipment.
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Thanks Bill, I understand that it's technique, thats what I can't get down.

David
 
Well I'm with you (OP),I decided to use a guided method and that saved me time in the long run.I never tried free hand too seriously but what little frustration I had was enough to push me to the Sharpmaker and the the Wicked Edge. Love the WE now and rarely use the SM but I love both systems. That said,I also have the Tormek, I bought that back in '99 for my wood working tools. Loved that system but I have recently been using water stones with a tool guide. Guess I'm a bit of a tool junkie and like fiddling about in the work shop. But for my knives I think I'll stick to the WE, just beautiful edges with it.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Same thought here. Sometimes that's helped me when I've temporarily lost my feel. Using the guide helps to focus on aspects like regulating pressure, and tuning the speed & rhythm of stroke. Watch and feel what your hands are doing when using the guide, and repeat it enough with the guide to develop a sense for it. The hands will still 'learn' a lot of these things by sheer repetition, even when the brain seems not to be consciously aware of it.

Don't give up on it yet. Just take a breather (& try a guide for a bit, if you want), and let the freehand gear 'rest' for a bit. At some point, you'll find some inspiration to try something new with your technique, maybe something seemingly small; but it's often the small changes in technique that make BIG changes in results.


David (that's the 3rd of us 'Davids' to post here so far... :D)
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Thanks David. I sometimes wonder if it has something to do with my right shoulder. I tore my rotator cuff and had surgery. Something didn't get hooked up like it should and I have some things that I just can't do. Sometimes I even have trouble writing. Then again I may just be looking for something to blame it on.......
David
 
SC_Dave said:
Thanks David. I sometimes wonder if it has something to do with my right shoulder. I tore my rotator cuff and had surgery. Something didn't get hooked up like it should and I have some things that I just can't do. Sometimes I even have trouble writing. Then again I may just be looking for something to blame it on.......
David
Click to expand...

Might be some validity in that. I've had some ongoing (many months' long) soreness in my right shoulder that impedes some otherwise simple tasks, like opening or closing a window, or lifting a jar of peanut butter from a high shelf in the pantry, or hanging a shirt on a hanger in the closet. The discomfort is enough to disturb my usual mechanics in doing even these simple things.

Maybe trying the guide will be enough to re-tune your mechanics a little bit, if they've changed as a result of the injury. If your injury is still bothering you in doing that, it might be reason to see if your doctor can doing anything else to minimize the impact of it.


David
 
Get your self a set of degree wedges to use with the stones, problem solved.

PM me if you want a set. Invest a few dollars in these and you'll be amazed how it all comes together. You will be able to produce the edge you want every time. No hit and miss as you have been experiencing.

Fred
 
Normally, I'd say get a Wicked Edge. But because you have a big investment in stones, it might make sense to try another approach.

In addition to the guides people mentioned above, you can prop your stones up to the angle you want, say 15 degrees for an edge you're sharpening at 15 dps. Then you just have to hold the knife blade level (parallel to the floor). It's much easier to hold the knife level than it is to hold it at 15 degrees or at 20 degrees or whatever angle you're using.

Also, are you checking for the burr? If you're not getting a burr, you're not reaching the apex. If you hit a burr, switch to the other side and create a burr, then switch back and you're not recreating a burr, your angles are too much in flux. The most important thing you can do to get the technique down correctly is to first figure out what you're doing wrong.

Another idea is to look at the project thread that TexasWade is doing to test the edges of various steels on thin-bladed mules. He made a simple device out of wood that seems to be an excellent idea and cheap to build. It looks like the Wicked Edge clamp tipped over sideways to hold an angle on a regular stone.

It's shown in post No. 93:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1334867-Thin-blade-steel-showdown!/page3
 
petrosil said:
Well I'm with you (OP),I decided to use a guided method and that saved me time in the long run.I never tried free hand too seriously but what little frustration I had was enough to push me to the Sharpmaker and the the Wicked Edge. Love the WE now and rarely use the SM but I love both systems. That said,I also have the Tormek, I bought that back in '99 for my wood working tools. Loved that system but I have recently been using water stones with a tool guide. Guess I'm a bit of a tool junkie and like fiddling about in the work shop. But for my knives I think I'll stick to the WE, just beautiful edges with it.
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Checked out the Wicked Edge and like the way they are made but boy those things a pricy.
David
 
What about getting a DMT Aligner Clamp and using it as a teaching guide? It will show you how to move your hands and get you in a consistent rhythm. Something else that was an ah-ha moment was when I first sharpened a Mora knife. The large flat bevel gives a lot of feedback from the stone and lets you see and feel sharpening on a larger scale.
 
You think it too much...!.....feel it....sense it...and give yourself time...!
 
Mr Dave,

I've felt the same thing a few times. I call myself the perpetual beginner, because I always feel like I'm just figuring out things I should have known by now. I love sharpening and it's a big hobby of mine. But I still feel like I have a HUGE amount to learn. I think I have some pretty decent skills. I'm proud of the edges I produce sometimes. But I'm still no where near an expert.

Specifics:

Waterstones really are their own thing. I've gotten really, REALLY nice results a few times. I've gotten mediocre to bad results more times. I think angle control is really important with waterstones. When I concentrate harder, I seem to have better results with them. This applies to ALL sharpening, but it seems extra important with waterstones.

Your shoulder might be part of your current issue. But you might not be using the best techniques to give you the best results. My experience is that the LESS I use my arms, shoulders, and wrists, the better my results are. If you can't move your elbows or shoulders or wrists, what's left? Your legs and hips. I try to minimize motion in my elbows, wrists, and shoulders, and do as much motion as possible with my whole body. Rocking primarily at the ankles, gives me a MUCH more consistent stroke. You might feel like it's a weird way to sharpen...but try it! You might be VERY surprised at how good the results are.

Good luck to you sir.

Brian.
 
SC_Dave said:
I'm giving up on freehand. I have given it my all and I guess I'm one of those people that just don't get it. I kinda half-way got it on a set of DMT DiaSharp plates, I thought I would do better with a set Shapton Pro stones. Bought the 120, 320, 1000, 2000 and 5000. I have tried over and over and over and cannot sharpen freehand. Dozens here use them and have great results so I know it's me. No use fighting it any longer, no use experiencing the frustration.

I'm going to sell them or trade them for an Edge Pro and give that a try. Don't what else to do........

David :beaten:
Click to expand...

Nooooo!

Have you watched the first video on my site (in addition to the many others linked on this subforum?) linked thru my sig below.

Learn to feel where you are on the edge, and it will guide anyone to edges that work. It will also educate you on what you do right or wrong, you'll get better very rapidly if you stop trying to sharpen a knife and focus on shaping an edge.
 
HeavyHanded said:
Nooooo!

Have you watched the first video on my site (in addition to the many others linked on this subforum?) linked thru my sig below.

Learn to feel where you are on the edge, and it will guide anyone to edges that work. It will also educate you on what you do right or wrong, you'll get better very rapidly if you stop trying to sharpen a knife and focus on shaping an edge.
Click to expand...

Darn good advice. Forget what others do and develop the technique that works for you. Sometimes you have to slow down to go faster.
 
How about trying to find a local knife sharpener to show you what you're doing wrong.
 
don't feel bad!over the last five years i have given up lots of times with freehand sharpening,this last year i got to the point where i would say i'm good but not grate! so i ended up buying a edge pro,so on the days i can't free hand to my way of liking i'll just go to edge pro!and just be done with it,plus its faster for me,but its nice to be able to sharpen both ways if needed,don't give up!vary few people can FH at a 100%,like the statement above (develop technique)that works for you.
 
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