Went to a gun show this weekend.....

scottickes said:
Just about every knifemaker ends up learning this lesson the hard way. If you like guns and have trouble with your will power, you end up spending more money on guns, plus your table fee, plus all of your time than you could ever make on your knives. It's a money losing proposition, unless you find a great deal on a gun. The problem is, you don't need a table to find that great deal on a gun. Very few gun folks are knife educated.
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That's what always happened to me . Guys at work would always ask ," How much did you spend and how much did you make " But there are fond memories . One lookey loo claimed the knives were only show sharp , so another maker standing there picked up the knife and shaved his face . Could not help but laugh .
 
scottickes said:
One guy picked up one of my knives and said, "I can buy a decent scope for that amount of money." I asked him if he could field dress three or four deer without sharpening his scope in between deer. He said, "There isn't a knife made that could do that." I offered to let him use it during deer season, and if he liked the knife, he paid for it then, with a written testimonial. If he didn't like the knife, he only had to give it back to me. He said he'd be afraid of ruining the knife and declined. Oh well, I tried.
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That sure is putting your money where your mouth is. I would happily do the same thing to prove a point about a blade I was selling.

Of course there is the difference between visitors at a gun show in Morgantown W VA and the SCI convention in Reno.

I went to a gun show in Atlanta a couple weeks ago and there was one knifemaker there. The individual was not even at the table maintaining his items(not one person was there at all watching his stuff), the knives were all dymondwood handled skinners and his makers mark was two individual letter stamps. Some were stamped sideways so the edge of the stamp got pressed with the letter. Of course looks could be deceiving and those knives might have been able to do some real work. Either way I did not get to touch the stuff cause the owner was not there to give me permission to touch em.
 
scottickes said:
One guy picked up one of my knives and said, "I can buy a decent scope for that amount of money."
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The first thing out of my mouth in situation like that would be "no........but you can get a decent scope for the same price as that $450 bowie.......I suspect that we may have a difference of opinion on what a 'decent' scope looks like, sir";)
 
Bruce Bump said:
Dave, Ive seen your knives. They are works of cutlery art. Go there and stand tall. You've paid your dues in this craft and it shows. The other makers know you well and so do most of the collectors just by your constant support on this forum. You will do fine there. Just have fun.
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Gosh. Thanks Bruce. I will stand tall. It'll be fun, and honestly I'm looking forward to some unbiased feedback. (Yikes!) Mostly. ;)
 
panch0 said:
There were about three or four guys selling "handmade" knives. I stopped by and asked one guy what the steel was on his knives. He said he didn't know because he just put the handles on.
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Could something like that be considered "hand finished" rather than "handmade"? I'm playing with kit knives, etc and if I ever have any I decide to sell any would that be an acceptable phrase? I know better than to call them "handmade" though...;)

Lack of knife education at a gunshow I can understand. I still don't know much about knives but once I decided I wanted to learn more about them I started reading knife books and websites. The amazing thing about gunshows is the lack of knowledge about the firearms they are wanting to buy!:eek:

I've set up a few times to clear the safe queens out of my collection and the comments are sometimes amazing.:rolleyes:
 
There's a long thread about kit knives and blanks and cheating a few pages back. My nomex is still smoking from that thread. I'm not even going to try to start another one about the topic of kit knives, blanks vs handmade. The only opinion that matters is yours and your customers but in my opinion, if you do not say you make the blade, you don't try to pass it off as a handmade blade and there's full disclosure to your customer about where the blade came from then I have no problem. The problem comes with people yabbering about the knife they "made" when all they did was install some handles and a guard. That generally gets my blood boiling. I started out with kit knives and gave away a bunch and actually sold 2 with the full understanding that I put the guard and handle on and had nothing to do with making the blade.
 
Will, I completely agree. I too have built (not made) several kit knives, but as you said, I would never pretend otherwise. I haven't sold any, but I gave a few as gifts and kept a couple for myself. As I said in that thread you're referring to, there's nothing inherently wrong with slapping a handle on a kit blade, but full disclosure is key.

Saying "I don't know what steel it is" is nonsense; every reputable outfit that sells kit blades that I've seen, states what the steel is. If they don't say, don't buy it.

awp101, go ahead and put together kit knives and sell them, hopefully for a fair profit. "Hand-finished" seems a reasonable way to describe them. You may find you can make a bit of cash with your skills. As you said yourself, you know the difference and would tell your customers where you got the blade. I honestly have no problem with that.

Use them as practice to experiment with handle materials and techniques. Maybe make a few bucks so you can expand your tool collection and skill-set to make your own blades.
 
I don't make sheaths. I admire the skill very much, but it's a skill I don't possess. Frankly, I have plenty of learning to do, to make my knives better, so I don't distract myself with leather- or kydex-work.

So, I have thus far bought factory-made leather sheaths from the usual vendors. I wet-fit them to the finished knife and dye/finish them as I see fit. I make it clear to my customers where the sheath came from and exactly what I did with it.
 
Thanks, I'll look for the other thread.

Full disclosure rather than plausible deniability is the key...;)
 
silver_pilate said:
Panther piss is really hard to find these days. You know, there were only so many people that had the gumption to collect urine from militant African American social activists in the 60's. By the time the trend caught on in the mid 1970's, panthers were a dying breed.

So I use cougar piss now. It's a whole lot easier to convince a single, amorous, 50 year old woman to pee in a cup than it is to hunt down a panther.

--nathan
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And that my friends is officially the best quote of the month!

Well thought out, funny historical reference, and a funny sexual reference all wrapped into one.............that might have to be my next sig line!;)
 
omg great thread

sadly, i have to explain at the CKG show (which is juried... only for guild members) that yes, i made the knives... I MADE THE KNIVES on my table... and of 12 different blades there might be different alloys... incredible! DIFFERENT ALLOYS? For different knives? Why? Why don't i use the best steel?

I'll go to a gun show when my name is "Pakistan" or "China"

sigh
 
:D:D Thanks for the nomination, Bigfatty.

I've never sold knives at a gun show, but I know plenty of the people that you guys are talking about. Armchair knife experts.

--nathan
 
Iv'e actually sold a fair amount of knives at gun shows, some dating back to the late 1970's. For the most part though it seems to be like taking your horse to a dog show.
Ken.
 
I have refrained from commenting on this thus far but due to the number of comments and the content of same, I feel compelled to put in my two cents worth.

First, I feel kinda bad that it says "knifemaker" below my name on this forum because I am not a knifemaker. I asked about this a couple of months ago and everyone agreed that I am not a knifemaker. I have placed some material on the kit blades that I found on the internet. What I am is a grip maker and I recently began putting handles on knife blades.

However, there are some people who don't seem to see a distinction. I dropped by the company I worked for before being laid off to show folks what I had been doing. Everyone asked something along the lines of "Are you making knives now?" I explained that I was only putting on the handles. It didn't seem to make much difference to anyone; as I said, they didn't quite see the distinction. All that mattered to them was they were impressed with what I had done (I think mainly because no one expected I was capable of it which is weird because they all know I build 1911s).

(paragraph deleted)

I have located a gentleman who is going to make some file blades for me and he flat out told me that once I put handles on them they were no longer X Company knives, they were my knives. Basically he was telling me it was acceptable to claim that I made the blades. Of course everyone here knows that wouldn't be the case because I have already indicated that I am not currently able to even do stock removal. So this guy's file blades may not have been made by him and he didn't really say they were.

(paragraph deleted)

I grant you that the quality of his work was outstanding. He did solder bolsters onto some of the same blades I'm using without bolsters (something I can't do at this time) and he used some really nice sambar stag and he polished the steel very nicely (something I suppose I could do as well, just haven't bothered at this point).

So, is a "custom" knife a knife you customized by placing a really nice handle on it?

The thing is, I build custom 1911s. Everyone knows I didn't fabricate the parts with the exception of the grips (but I didn't grow the tree or make the micarta). But everyone knows I have a knowledge and skill to build a 1911 that they don't have so I build custom guns. In fact, several well known custom gun makers purchase their parts from the same suppliers I use.

So, are kit knife handle makers any different than say Buck Knives? After all, they have a massive operation and produce knife parts en masse and someone assembles the parts. My operation is just considerably smaller and I outsource the parts.

Don't misunderstand; I know my place in the knife making world. Until I fabricate a blade I'm not a knife maker but do I produce custom knives? Do I produce custom knives if I accept an order from someone and put on the handle material the customer specifies? Further, considering that I am doing this in an effort to generate an income can I state that I am selling custom knives (my web page clearly indicates that I purchase blades from reputable sources and use their specs for the steel)?

What say ya'll?


I did some research and finally found some info: It looks like the guy at the gun show is a custom knife maker who is also using blades from kit knives as well as making his own blades.


BTW, I'll take 19.
 
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hey daveinvegas,

nicely written post... i think you make knives, but not the way i make knives...you make knives the way a bike maker makes bikes, or as you point out, a gunsmith makes firearms... somewhere in between factory and handmade, and this continuum occurs in a highly industrialized society

i appreciate your honesty and thoughts; i'm sure many do here

i made knives by filing barstock down in my dorm room back in the day... you start doing that and you are a full on maker... go for it!
 
although this is a "funny" thread, you guys are ALOT more tolerant than I. There is no way I could stand there and listen to bullsheet like this. The best I could do is politely ask them to move on down the row.

And ANYONE that is at a gun show that doesnt ASK to pick up anything (gun or knife) shouldnt even be in the building.
 
daveinvegas said:
...(but I didn't grow the tree or make the micarta)...
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Heh. Dave, I'm just talking off the top off my head here, but maybe you should call your current work "Customized" or "Hand-Finished". "Custom" to me implies that the entire knife was built from the ground up. Just my opinion. But then again, some folks will tell you it's not really custom unless the client specified the options. *shrug*

The problem with all this is that there's no "official dictionary definition" that everyone agrees on. I've seen some very contentious arguments where folks tried to decide what "sole authorship" means, for example (that's why your comment about growing the tree made me chuckle).

Just continue to be honest about what you do and how you do it. Some folks will understand, some don't really care, and some will argue with you until they're blue in the face.
 
I think Nathan should win some kind of award for that post! Priceless! :D

I realized I was being one sided. Truth of the matter... is that I sold a knife at that crappy gun show AND took an order from a guy for two knives.

The funny thing, was that he was a slobby, dirty looking fella with a pair of ratty jeans, holes all over his T-shirt, and a hat that was ready to fall apart. Luckily, I didn't judge him, because I come from a family of working men... so those dirty, calloused hands of his are a sign of pride in my family :)

What I know now, that I didn't understand then, was that his rag bag T-shirt said, "Proud to be a JHKelly Ironworker" Which means that even 10 years ago, he was making about $35/hour. ;) :)

Lesson? Don't judge a knife show attendant by their cover!!! :D ;)

He ordered a knife from me a few years after that too. He told me he likes to go to trade shows in his "just got off work" wear, so he can see who treats him fairly for the man he is inside, and not just how he looks on the outside. Pretty deep for a beefy, 'ol crusty welder! :D



So that show sure wasn't all bad. But I'd still take a true knife show any day. :)
 
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