Went to quite the yardsale today. (Press Question)

M.Griffin

M.Griffin

Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
460
So I was out with the wife and kids today and saw a yardsale sign. I decided to stop and walk into this guy's shop. First thing I see is a bunch of milling machines and lathes. All for sale, but all huge machines...out of my league. He also has a hydraulic press sitting there. It isn't up and running as the hydraulic reservoir and 5hp motor are currently seperated from the press. It is 3ph and he had a phase converter sitting there that I think I will try to get him to throw in if I go for it. It looks to be in very good condition, and hasn't been set up since he bought it as surplus some years back. He wants $1100 for it, but I am guessing that price is negotiable. Is there any way to find out if a press is suitable for knifemaking type needs without seeing it run? I know a forging specific press is ideal, but how do I know this isn't "the one"?

I jokingly asked if he had any power hammers hiding anywhere and another guy who is at the sale chimes in that he has a 50lb Little Giant he is wanting to sell. $4000 a little rich for my blood.

What should I do? Drop 5k and get a hammer and press? I wish.

-Mike
 
need to look at pump specifics, and tonnage on the cylender. anything 10 tons or better is great. pump should be a 2 stage for fast movement. a 5 horse single phase TEFC capacitor start/run motor should be sufficient and easily made to fit your pump. so you wont have to run a phase converter.

Jason
 
Mike Quesenberry said:
Mike

How much were the milling machines?
Click to expand...

You know, I didn't even ask as they are not an option for me. He has a smaller mill at his other shop that he said he was willing to part with so I am looking into that one. I have his number and I think I may try to check the press out again tomorrow so I will ask for you if I end up talking to him. I think he had 4 mills and wanted to keep one of them for himself. He considered everything in this shop surplus to what he had in a second shop that is a few hours away. Crazy.

-Mike
 
Make sure it's a dual acting cylinder (ie. fluid pushes the ram down AND up). You want about 1"/second or more of travel unloaded (this can tell you pretty easily if it's a 2-stage pump. A single stage will generally be slower unloaded).

Good luck!

-d
 
deker said:
Make sure it's a dual acting cylinder (ie. fluid pushes the ram down AND up). You want about 1"/second or more of travel unloaded (this can tell you pretty easily if it's a 2-stage pump. A single stage will generally be slower unloaded).

Good luck!

-d
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. Is there a way to tell if it is a dual acting cylinder without seeing it run? Also can I tell if it has a 2-stage pump without it running? If it is single stage, is it not worth buying? Thanks. I have only used a press a few times and am pretty uneducated on them. This one just sort of popped up and I want to make sure I don't pass on a great deal.

-Mike
 
A double action cylinder will have 2 ports on it.One near the ram and one near the base.on the 2 stage pump I don't know.
Stan
 
...no one mentioned it so far

A shop press runs very slowly

A forging press need to go faster to minimize lost heat waiting

1 or 2 inches per second is the recommended speed that i have seen

You can do the calculations to figure it out based on the data plate on the pump and the rpm of the motor, but the real test is actually seeing it go.

If everything else is OK, you could always just replace, or add an additional pump for two or three hundred $.
Factor that into your purchase price

If it is in pieces on the floor and you cannot see it run...use that as leverage on the purchase price.
 
So I just got back from looking at it again. It does appear to be a dual acting cylinder. Still no telling what its speed is though. Here are the specs I could gather:
The hydraulic ram is a "Miller"
Stroke: 12"
Model: H67
Bore: 4"
Severe Service: 3000PSI
Moderate Service: 5000PSI

The motor is a 5hp 1740rpm.

The press appears to be in excellent condition and comes with a set of flat dies and a set of what looks like squaring dies. He was pretty firm on his price and would only do $1000 out the door. Am I crazy to buy this without seeing it run? I was thinking it would not be hard to recover my money if it doesn't end up being the right press.

Here are a couple of pics:

The press
picture.php


The pump
picture.php



-Mike
 
It COULD work, but would take some work to do so. The big thing I see that would end up being a big no-no on a forging press is a lack of proper guides for the ram. that may work well for things where you can line it all up and make sure forces are all linear, but that is not what happens in forging. any bit of uneven loading and you can expect the ram to snap eventually. At the pressures involved, that can be a VERY dangerous thing.

So, in short, he wants $1k, you would need to throw some more money at it to power it, and then some more to make it safe for forging. If it were me, I'd save my pennies and save up for a purpose built press.

-d
 
deker said:
It COULD work, but would take some work to do so. The big thing I see that would end up being a big no-no on a forging press is a lack of proper guides for the ram. that may work well for things where you can line it all up and make sure forces are all linear, but that is not what happens in forging. any bit of uneven loading and you can expect the ram to snap eventually. At the pressures involved, that can be a VERY dangerous thing.

So, in short, he wants $1k, you would need to throw some more money at it to power it, and then some more to make it safe for forging. If it were me, I'd save my pennies and save up for a purpose built press.

-d
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input deker. This is exactly the type of answer I was looking for from someone with a lot of experience. It is appreciated as $1000 ain't no joke, and I don't want to end up with something that I will be frustrated with or better yet, kill myself with.

-Mike
 
...Deker made a good point on the guides...

the issue I see is that it is all hard piped
Especially with shocky loads like hitting the pressure relief valve each stroke...hard piping can stress and crack

...even worse

-they used black steel water pipe; which is rated far differently than proper hydraulic pipe/tubing or even flexible hydraulic hose.

References here (yes there are other standards, but this seems like the correct one)
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/astm-steel-pipes-working-pressure-d_775.html

1/2 Schedule 80 (the thicker pipe) is rated for 753 psi max working pressure...
and they are running 3000 to 5000 psi

Every farmer in America and quite a few retailers/farm dealers/auto parts stores...have no idea and buy watter fittings off the shelf for hydraulics.

It looks like a real industrial unit and I'm a bit suprized that it would be setup that way.

You could redo it all, but then
for $ 1000, you could go a long way towards building exactly what you want...

(use that as leverage...) offer him $200 and see what it needs the frame is a nice start

last tested in 1995? everything is dry, new seals needed in the cylinder?
needs guides,
needs single phase motor
prove the pump works? maybe it needs new seals if the pump is dry?
are rebuild kits available for it?
needs new hose all around. (except the low pressure return side)
if the oil reservoir is empty and dry - does it need the rust removed?
 
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