Sadden above, probably uses Atomas a good bit I'd be willing to guess. I'm confused because he says they last a long time, Clay Allison sharpened over 1200 knives he claims with one set of diamond stones (not Atomas), but Ben and others say they don't? Colin, feel free to chime in...
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Were you more satisfied going from the Edge Pro to the Wicked Edge?
- Thread starter uofaengr
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Sadden above, probably uses Atomas a good bit I'd be willing to guess. I'm confused because he says they last a long time, Clay Allison sharpened over 1200 knives he claims with one set of diamond stones (not Atomas), but Ben and others say they don't? Colin, feel free to chime in...
Have both EP and WE , am sharpening impaired , only the WE works for me . Shorter learning curve on the WE . Diamond stones are the way to go for less mess .
It is my belief that people bear down too hard on diamond stones , damaging the stones and wearing them out quickly .
It is my belief that people bear down too hard on diamond stones , damaging the stones and wearing them out quickly .
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I've used both systems extensively. After about a year, I sold the Wicked Edge. It's an excellent system, and I would never denigrate it, but I like the Edge-Pro much better.
I use diamond stones exclusively for re-beveling. The ATOMA plates are far and away the best. But the DMTs work quite well. I believe that Ben Dale sells the Eze-Lap plates. Not bad, but IME, not as good as DMT.
I use diamond stones exclusively for re-beveling. The ATOMA plates are far and away the best. But the DMTs work quite well. I believe that Ben Dale sells the Eze-Lap plates. Not bad, but IME, not as good as DMT.
Does DMT sell any stones that are 1"x6"? I've only seen 2".
If so, that would be nice as I don't care what the WE angle presets are. I'd use an angle cube to measure all my angles just as with the EP. Thanks for the tip. :thumbup:
With the unlimited adjustability, is the most acute angle still 15 degrees or can you go lower?
If your worried about edge pro diamond stones wearing out then surely the wicked edge ones wont be any better?
The atoma stones must higher quality than the WE diamonds?
The 2" stones work great in the edge pro, I superglued a blank onto the back of mine but a proper holder from CKTG would be better. Tho not sure how they compare price wise to atomas, might not be worth using DMT unless you have some already like I did.
The atoma stones must higher quality than the WE diamonds?
The 2" stones work great in the edge pro, I superglued a blank onto the back of mine but a proper holder from CKTG would be better. Tho not sure how they compare price wise to atomas, might not be worth using DMT unless you have some already like I did.
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If you flip the arms on the basic sharpener around like wvdavidr said, you can get down to about 8-10 degrees. It's a neat trick for when you're trying to sharpen a straight razor or something really tiny like a Xacto blade.
When you say flip, do you mean just insert the arms into the base rod backwards compared to how you're "supposed to do it". Sorry if that doesn't make sense...
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You're talking about 2 different things.
You can flip the rods around (180 deg.) so that the tightening screws are on the back. (Or turn the angle bar around if you're going to keep it this way, that way the screws are still in the front.). This allows you to set whatever angle you want, usually with a digital angle cube.
SarahWE is talking about rotating the arm 90 deg. so that the screw is now on top. This puts the arms in front of the clamp for sharpening, for example, a straight razor. (Check this video 1:45min. mark talks about it)...
[video=youtube;5APdXK9-0V4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5APdXK9-0V4[/video]
You can flip the rods around (180 deg.) so that the tightening screws are on the back. (Or turn the angle bar around if you're going to keep it this way, that way the screws are still in the front.). This allows you to set whatever angle you want, usually with a digital angle cube.
SarahWE is talking about rotating the arm 90 deg. so that the screw is now on top. This puts the arms in front of the clamp for sharpening, for example, a straight razor. (Check this video 1:45min. mark talks about it)...
[video=youtube;5APdXK9-0V4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5APdXK9-0V4[/video]
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I have experience with the EP apex, EP pro, and now WEPS. Right off of the bat I will say that I have now had my WEPS for about 2 years and am not planning on ever going back to the EP. That being said, back when I got mine the build quality wasn't quite as good as EP (vise bending, slop in the arms) but as CBW said they have fixed the arms now and the vise issue only pops up now and again. However, Clay and his team REALLY go out of their way to take care of you and I have never seen Clay respond to an issue - even when someone posts a public complaint instead of calling in - in any way other than polite and professional and with the utmost in customer service. WEPS even has a forum of it's own where tons of ideas are discussed and you can get help immediately. How cool is that?! =) So I am a fan for life. On to a couple of points...
I have some experience with the Atoma 140's (mounted to WEPS paddles), the DMT course/fine duosharp (freehand plate), and of course the WEPS diamonds. My atomas wore out pretty quickly (using the same pressure) when compared to the WEPS plates - which was surprising since that's ALL atoma does. This has been seen and confirmed by other WEPS users as well that have tried them out. Clay was willing to carry them but when he tested them he felt the same. My DMT's wore bald spots on the edges of the stones, which was not cool; now I can't get into the base of the blade near the choil very well. This was only after a few knives too (and I wasn't using a ton of pressure). So far, I have sharpened around 150 blades on the same set of stones. I am getting a couple of slightly worn spots on my 600's, but other than that I haven't noticed anything. Remember the innovation I was telling you about? Clay is working with some super secret squirrel company and is testing some stones that you basically cannot wear out... they are diamond thru and thru - not just plated. They would be expensive but I believe probably worth the investment if you sharpen a lot. I am hoping to check them out at blade this year (if he brings them
One of the things I really love about the WEPS is that it is not nearly as messy. And this lack of mess means that you are less likely to scratch blades up. Now for my own blades I could care less, but I also sharpen very expensive custom pocket knives and the WEPS is my go to "machine" =D. Even with the tape on the EP I found that the water would get under it and scratch the blades sometimes.
The only and main limiting factor in my opinion is the minimum angle mark... you can get a little lower with the low angle adaptor but it's around 11-12 dps. Still not as low as the EP.
** edit: as stated I will be at blade (saturday only). If you would like to meet up at the WEPS table I know Clay would like to meet you and go over any questions you may have (I would be happy to as well). You could get some hands on possibly as well and see how you like the WEPS.
also just saw where WEPS is having a father's day sale! only on the field and sport model and accessories though...
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Sorry i missed this one. Been busy looking after the new place.
The WEPs diamonds are designed to be used dry IIRC whereas the Atomas are not. Compared side by side i would hazard a guess that when used dry the WEPs diamonds will hold up much better.
I am nothing short of thrilled with the Atomas for my EPP , i wrecked the 1200 lapping a 1k Pro on accident. My fault nit the stones.
When used wet with proper pressure the Atomas will last a exceptionally long time. Ken Schwartz uses a 140 to flatten and square cut stones for the KME , WEPs and EP , he just replaced that plate that he has been using for years. Much more abusive work than sharpening.
If you actually wore out a set of Atomas you either sharpen thousands of knives per month , or used them.dry or with too much pressure.
The WEPs diamonds are designed to be used dry IIRC whereas the Atomas are not. Compared side by side i would hazard a guess that when used dry the WEPs diamonds will hold up much better.
I am nothing short of thrilled with the Atomas for my EPP , i wrecked the 1200 lapping a 1k Pro on accident. My fault nit the stones.
When used wet with proper pressure the Atomas will last a exceptionally long time. Ken Schwartz uses a 140 to flatten and square cut stones for the KME , WEPs and EP , he just replaced that plate that he has been using for years. Much more abusive work than sharpening.
If you actually wore out a set of Atomas you either sharpen thousands of knives per month , or used them.dry or with too much pressure.
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interesting! I did you use them dry... no one ever told me they were meant to be used wet? I will try to pass this along... do you have any reference about this?
on a side note I have used the WE diamond stones dry and now I use them wet all the time with no issues... prevents the abrasive dust from getting everywhere.
The 120 is a better cutter than what they had before, but at the expense of producing quite a lot of muck as they go. I think his assumption with diamond is that the stones will be used excessively and wear, and they have a higher replacement cost. I kind of agree with that, but at the same time, reprofiling a blade with an insane wear resistance is also going to wear finer stones at an even more accelerated rate, which may negate the premium diamond stones cost. For whatever reason I once decided to use a 220 to reprofile a 440V blade and I was surprised by how much S60V wore the stones for the amount of usage it saw.
I've been debating going to the Chosera stones for a while now. The price is high but it seems it makes sharpening a little more enjoyable, and faster. I've read the 400 grit Chosera is a very fast cutter despite being a higher grit.
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I have the Edge Pro but not any experience with the W.E. system. One thing about WE that I like what I am seeing is Clay's willingness to experiment and always strive to find ways to improve his system. While i am aware the EPA has been out for a significantly longer amount of time, it seems that Ben is content to run with the product as is and rely on other companies (such as cktg) for aftermarket parts and such. From Atoma and Shapton stones to quick change stone holder and table magnets, i have been happy with every "non o.e.m" accessory ive added. So, kudos to Clay for constantly striving to improve his product. I think if ben had this same approach, there might be a whole slew of upgrades to the EPA to make it a more improved system.
In regards to stone-wear, i use the Atoma 140 for all my re-profiling and it still cuts as well as it ever has. And it has seen a lot of knives. One downside i have seen is small chipping along tbe outer edges of the stone but it has been pretty minor and has not affected the performance of the stone. If youre looking at the chosera 400, you may also want to look at the shapton 500. It is nearly twice as thick and is also an aggressive cutter while still leaving a more refined finish and less burring. I would say it cuts roughly twice as fast as the stock 220 stone. The finish is refined enough that you can go right to the 1k stone and not beat it to death. The epa definitely is not perfect but if you plan on doing a fair number of kitchen knives at lower angles, i still thing the epa is the runaway favorite between the two. But that is just my opinion and my .02
In regards to stone-wear, i use the Atoma 140 for all my re-profiling and it still cuts as well as it ever has. And it has seen a lot of knives. One downside i have seen is small chipping along tbe outer edges of the stone but it has been pretty minor and has not affected the performance of the stone. If youre looking at the chosera 400, you may also want to look at the shapton 500. It is nearly twice as thick and is also an aggressive cutter while still leaving a more refined finish and less burring. I would say it cuts roughly twice as fast as the stock 220 stone. The finish is refined enough that you can go right to the 1k stone and not beat it to death. The epa definitely is not perfect but if you plan on doing a fair number of kitchen knives at lower angles, i still thing the epa is the runaway favorite between the two. But that is just my opinion and my .02