Western Movies

[Redmeadow Knives]

No not like Bud (Olympian before acting)
But yes he is good and a likable character in this

Noticed Sorvino had also took over the Raymond Burr Perry Mason character

I can see Sorvino playing a good Perry Mason. Didn't know Bud was an Olympian. I just learned that Dan Blocker was in the Korean War, didn't know that. There's a Youtube channel with a lot of great info about actors that served, there were some class acts back in the day.

It's a pretty good Channel, where else can you learn that Boss Hog spoke 12 languages!

 

[other memory]

I just finished the Netflix docudrama about Wyatt Earp, his brothers, and the significance of Tombstone AZ at the time. I didn't know that he made it to 80, significant at the time, and that towards the end of his life he was a consultant in Hollywood. He was one of the people who bestowed upon us the western genre. I had no idea about the continuity.

The producers did a good job of pointing out why Tombstone and it's economy were so important at the time; the dollar was backed by gold and silver and it was inexpensive to extract silver from the nearby mine, one of the most productive at the time. Essentially competitive advantage. Unfortunately, in the real world, then and now, worthwhile things draw all kinds of attention and characters, unwanted and wanted. Bring in the outlaws! It must have been rough dealing with outlaws at the time. Lots of violence and uncertainty. Aholes. The series presented Ike Clanton as a shrewd political player, a guy who didn't give up. He was smart. It's refreshing that the producers didn't dumb down the bad guy. I had no idea how impactful the feud between the Earps and the Cowboys was. Anyway, enjoyable. Cheers.

 

[Redmeadow Knives]

I just finished the Netflix docudrama about Wyatt Earp, his brothers, and the significance of Tombstone AZ at the time. I didn't know that he made it to 80, significant at the time, and that towards the end of his life he was a consultant in Hollywood. He was one of the people who bestowed upon us the western genre. I had no idea about the continuity.

The producers did a good job of pointing out why Tombstone and it's economy was so important at the time, the dollar was backed by gold and silver and it was inexpensive to extract silver from the nearby mine, one of the most productive at the time. Essentially competitive advantage. Unfortunately, in the real world, then and now, worthwhile things draw all kinds of attention and characters, unwanted and wanted. Bring in the outlaws! It must have been rough dealing with outlaws at the time. Lots of violence and uncertainty. Aholes. The series presented Ike Clanton as a shrewd political player, a guy who didn't give up. He was smart. It's refreshing that the producers didn't dumb down the bad guy. I had no idea how impactful the feud between the Earps and the Cowboys was. Anyway, enjoyable. Cheers.

I heard that was good, been wanting to watch it. Sounds like the gunfight at the ok corral had some huge political implications around the world.

 

[other memory]

I don't want to spoil it... But a little bit... According to the historians and producers, the months after the gunfight were pivotal in determining the fate of railroad expansion westward and railroads were a big deal in the eyes of Eastern industrialists. Basically the nobility in Europe (key financiers) needed to be convinced the American west wasn't in chaos, because the American media made it appear that way. In a way we glamorize this stuff now, but in reality most would consider outlaws terrorists if viewed from outside of the glamorization, and that's how the European nobility viewed them.

 

[Horsewright]

I just finished the Netflix docudrama about Wyatt Earp, his brothers, and the significance of Tombstone AZ at the time. I didn't know that he made it to 80, significant at the time, and that towards the end of his life he was a consultant in Hollywood. He was one of the people who bestowed upon us the western genre. I had no idea about the continuity.

The producers did a good job of pointing out why Tombstone and it's economy were so important at the time; the dollar was backed by gold and silver and it was inexpensive to extract silver from the nearby mine, one of the most productive at the time. Essentially competitive advantage. Unfortunately, in the real world, then and now, worthwhile things draw all kinds of attention and characters, unwanted and wanted. Bring in the outlaws! It must have been rough dealing with outlaws at the time. Lots of violence and uncertainty. Aholes. The series presented Ike Clanton as a shrewd political player, a guy who didn't give up. He was smart. It's refreshing that the producers didn't dumb down the bad guy. I had no idea how impactful the feud between the Earps and the Cowboys was. Anyway, enjoyable. Cheers.

Some where in my stuff I have a photo of Wyatt as a very old man. Reportedly approx a year before he passed away. He's sitting on the porch of his home in Paso Robles Ca, in a rocking chair. Just a nice old man, everybody's grandpa except............and you look at the eyes and they were the epitome of screw (spelled with a F) around and find out! This was not everyone's grandpa, not in the slightest.

 

[Rupestris]

I still find it strange that Wyatt Earp lived long enough that he could have owned a car and that my grandfather was ten years old when Wyatt died and he could have read about it in the newspaper.

 

[Redmeadow Knives]

I still find it strange that Wyatt Earp lived long enough that he could have owned a car and that my grandfather was ten years old when Wyatt died and he could have read about it in the newspaper.

I always find it funny when you can put together eras like that. I think Oxford College was started almost 300 years before the Aztec empire even began.

The first time I saw that time warp I was watching an old movie from probably the 30's and there was the typical hunched over old man character with the big cone in his ear "eh sonny, what'd ya say??" I remember thinking he must have been in his 90's. I did the math and thought damn, he's more than old enough to have been in his 20's during the civil war and that just didn't fit my understanding of time.

 

[cbach8tw]

My mom’s mother was born in 1899, my mom was born in 1929, so I feel like my grandmother was born in the previous century, lived the 20th century, experienced it in life, witnessed history. She was a teenager in high school when WW1 broke in 1914, we have a pic of her with my mom and aunt as toddlers and she was wearing 1920s or 30s clothes. I was a teenager in high school when she passed in 1985, but enjoyed a few of her stories, my sister was closer to her and heard the most stories, my aunt did record some of her stories on cassette tape when she was in her 80s, and it is cool to hear her voice recite a poem she had memorized for high school.

My dads mom was born in 1903, same situation I think of her life through the 20th century, her father, my great grandfather served on Admiral Dewey’s ship the Olympia during the Spanish American War of 1898 in Manila Bay in the Philippines. The stories we have in my family gives me a sense of continuity and a link to the past.

 

[Hatchet_Jack]

I grew up loving westerns, I watched a few of the classics enough times to drive my family crazy. My grandmother even taped over a few she was that sick of it (Jeremiah Johnson, Josey Wales and Man from Snowy River).

But a relatively recent western that didn’t get the credit it deserved in my view was Hostiles. It was kinda like watching the book Empire of the Summer Moon or Blood and Thunder. Highlighting the best and worst of both sides.

 

[Pàdruig]

I grew up loving westerns, I watched a few of the classics enough times to drive my family crazy. My grandmother even taped over a few she was that sick of it (Jeremiah Johnson, Josey Wales and Man from Snowy River).

But a relatively recent western that didn’t get the credit it deserved in my view was Hostiles. It was kinda like watching the book Empire of the Summer Moon or Blood and Thunder. Highlighting the best and worst of both sides.

Hostiles is a great movie. Not a feel-good movie by any means but still an excellent watch and one I'd recommend.

 

[Redmeadow Knives]

I grew up loving westerns, I watched a few of the classics enough times to drive my family crazy. My grandmother even taped over a few she was that sick of it (Jeremiah Johnson, Josey Wales and Man from Snowy River).

But a relatively recent western that didn’t get the credit it deserved in my view was Hostiles. It was kinda like watching the book Empire of the Summer Moon or Blood and Thunder. Highlighting the best and worst of both sides.

Hostiles is a great movie. Not a feel-good movie by any means but still an excellent watch and one I'd recommend.

Great movie right there! I really enjoyed that one, Christian Bale (I think that's his name) was perfect in that.

 

[Hatchet_Jack]

What did folks think of Horizon? I’m surprised it did so poorly I really enjoyed it. Hoping we still get the remainder of the tale.
My wife cried in the initial Apache attack but stuck with it to the end.

There was a great quote about how the frontier ends, I can’t recall it verbatim but it was good.

My only gripe is that there were far too many breechloaders for a period that would have been caplocks and still quite a few flintlocks. To their credit a few characters carried longrifles.

I’m biased as a muzzleloader nut mind you

 

[Horsewright]

Great movie right there! I really enjoyed that one, Christian Bale (I think that's his name) was perfect in that.

Yes Christian Bale. I saw him in an interview along with the female lead, Rosamund Pike and Wes Studi. They mentioned in the interview that the author had written the part for Christian Bale.

 

[Pàdruig]

My only gripe is that there were far too many breechloaders for a period that would have been caplocks and still quite a few flintlocks. To their credit a few characters carried longrifles.

Unfortunately, this is a sin that far too many Westerns commit. I'd be hard pressed indeed to find a Western where there aren't a number of firearm related anachronisms. In Horizon, they show a Winchester at one point, a full eight years before it was even produced. They also show cap and ball revolvers with Richards cartridge conversion kits, which weren't produced until the 1870s.

I think it is easier for Hollywood to deal with cartridges than cap and ball and flintlocks so they push the envelope in films that are supposed to be pre-1860s. I pay a lot of attention to material culture in films so sometimes those kinds of details irritate me. Hollywood is going to Hollywood though so I've learned to not let it ruin film for me for the most part.

All that to say, I enjoyed Horizon too. Beyond the material culture sins (not limited to firearms), my other complaint would be that it's a bit difficult to determine the film's direction. I suspect that will become clearer if Costner is able to realize his complete vision. I think most of the criticism is levied by folks who have embraced short attention spans - half the time these days, people "watch" movies while doing crap on their phones. A sprawling western saga is not going to pull their attention away and hold it - as such, they are the ones missing out.

 

[Redmeadow Knives]

What did folks think of Horizon? I’m surprised it did so poorly I really enjoyed it. Hoping we still get the remainder of the tale.
My wife cried in the initial Apache attack but stuck with it to the end.

There was a great quote about how the frontier ends, I can’t recall it verbatim but it was good.

My only gripe is that there were far too many breechloaders for a period that would have been caplocks and still quite a few flintlocks. To their credit a few characters carried longrifles.

I’m biased as a muzzleloader nut mind you
View attachment 2752944
View attachment 2752945

I haven't seen Horizon yet, need to get a chance to watch it.

Beautiful flintlock! That's awesome, great pics. I got my son a muzzleloader pistol kit for Christmas. He really wants a flintlock, but I thought we'd start with a percussion. He's studied every gun book I have and is drawn to frontier rifles, lever guns, and single action revolvers.

We were watching a short video on old guns the other day and one popped up and he says "Oh that's a French pinfire revolver", I said oh yeah? Sure enough, it was a French Pinfire. He studies old gun digests and has a great memory. I barely know what a pinfire is and he's identifying them at 9 years old.

 

[Redmeadow Knives]

Unfortunately, this is a sin that far too many Westerns commit. I'd be hard pressed indeed to find a Western where there aren't a number of firearm related anachronisms. In Horizon, they show a Winchester at one point, a full eight years before it was even produced. They also show cap and ball revolvers with Richards cartridge conversion kits, which weren't produced until the 1870s.

I think it is easier for Hollywood to deal with cartridges than cap and ball and flintlocks so they push the envelope in films that are supposed to be pre-1860s. I pay a lot of attention to material culture in films so sometimes those kinds of details irritate me. Hollywood is going to Hollywood though so I've learned to not let it ruin film for me for the most part.

All that to say, I enjoyed Horizon too. Beyond the material culture sins (not limited to firearms), my other complaint would be that it's a bit difficult to determine the film's direction. I suspect that will become clearer if Costner is able to realize his complete vision. I think most of the criticism is levied by folks who have embraced short attention spans - half the time these days, people "watch" movies while doing crap on their phones. A sprawling western saga is not going to pull their attention away and hold it - as such, they are the ones missing out.

I wish I could find it but I remember watching a terrible movie with a shooting scene where the bullet, casing and all turns slow motion as it fills the screen and it slowly flies through the air showing the case head and it said 45mm or something like that. Now that's what you call a hand cannon!

 

[Pàdruig]

I wish I could find it but I remember watching a terrible movie with a shooting scene where the bullet, casing and all turns slow motion as it fills the screen and it slowly flies through the air showing the case head and it said 45mm or something like that. Now that's what you call a hand cannon!

That's hilarious. I think I've seen a number of films in the past where they show projectiles in flight being comprised of the bullet and casing. It's almost cartoonish.


As an additional thought to what Hatchet_Jack brought up - Henry rifles are pretty prevalent throughout Horizon. The movie is supposed to be set in 1859 with the saga (subsequent films) pushing into the '60s. With that being the case, a Henry would have been a rare, if not entirely nonexistent sight - certainly not in 1859 and pretty unlikely to see in many hands pushing West in the early '60s. Here is something to munch on as well - a Henry rifle went for around $40 USD (give or take a few). That comes out to around $1300 to $1400+ USD today. Considering that the annual income for soldiers and a lot of tradesmen in the 1860s was in the hundreds of dollars or less, a Henry would very much be a luxury.

There would definitely be far more muzzleloaders about in the period the movie is portraying and repeaters would be very infrequent, especially out west.

Here is a handful of books that I pulled from my home library that I recommend reading. Hard Tack and Coffee isn't so much about firearms as it is about camp life amongst soldiers - a great read though.

 

[Hatchet_Jack]

Unfortunately, this is a sin that far too many Westerns commit. I'd be hard pressed indeed to find a Western where there aren't a number of firearm related anachronisms. In Horizon, they show a Winchester at one point, a full eight years before it was even produced. They also show cap and ball revolvers with Richards cartridge conversion kits, which weren't produced until the 1870s.

I think it is easier for Hollywood to deal with cartridges than cap and ball and flintlocks so they push the envelope in films that are supposed to be pre-1860s. I pay a lot of attention to material culture in films so sometimes those kinds of details irritate me. Hollywood is going to Hollywood though so I've learned to not let it ruin film for me for the most part.

All that to say, I enjoyed Horizon too. Beyond the material culture sins (not limited to firearms), my other complaint would be that it's a bit difficult to determine the film's direction. I suspect that will become clearer if Costner is able to realize his complete vision. I think most of the criticism is levied by folks who have embraced short attention spans - half the time these days, people "watch" movies while doing crap on their phones. A sprawling western saga is not going to pull their attention away and hold it - as such, they are the ones missing out.

I wondered whether they did it to keep pace of the action up.
For all its faults, The Patriot did it well, showed some reloading of the flintlocks but managed to keep pace.
The Revenant didn’t do it well! In the opening fight scene DiCaprio pours powder from the flask straight into the bore then spits in some shot and takes off.

I did read that somewhere about the lack of direction in Horizon but I myself didn’t have that complaint. To me it was pretty clear part one was building a bit of a backstory for each character and a path for how they’ll all end up at Horizon. The trailer for pt2 at the end of it helps with that as well.
I completely agree about modern audiences with no attention spans. They want brain dead comic book movies but that’s another discussion.

 

[Hatchet_Jack]

I haven't seen Horizon yet, need to get a chance to watch it.

Beautiful flintlock! That's awesome, great pics. I got my son a muzzleloader pistol kit for Christmas. He really wants a flintlock, but I thought we'd start with a percussion. He's studied every gun book I have and is drawn to frontier rifles, lever guns, and single action revolvers.

We were watching a short video on old guns the other day and one popped up and he says "Oh that's a French pinfire revolver", I said oh yeah? Sure enough, it was a French Pinfire. He studies old gun digests and has a great memory. I barely know what a pinfire is and he's identifying them at 9 years old.

A caplock is a good place to start, learning about consistent loading from the muzzle and dealing with BP residue is a different ball game itself but when he gets to a flinter I’m sure he’ll never go back.

I’m glad he likes longrifles, America’s first gun for one! But they’re beautiful too. if I were in the US I’d get a Kibler kit. Pretty well done on the historical accuracy and brilliant locks. They won’t ship here unfortunately.

My favourite time period in history is pre and just post of the F&I wars. I have French ancestry so I suppose that plays a hand in my interest but it’s such a fascinating time.
My favourite gun is my fusil de chasse, a French smoothbore flintlock from the time period. I had an English trade gun but sold it a while back.

Currently waiting on a custom English sporting rifle in 58 cal. 2 years into a 1 year wait now
This is the maker and similar rifle.

I love he’s on the ball with those pinfires, they’re interesting that’s for sure. Sounds like you’re bringing them up the right way

 

[Redmeadow Knives]

A caplock is a good place to start, learning about consistent loading from the muzzle and dealing with BP residue is a different ball game itself but when he gets to a flinter I’m sure he’ll never go back.

I’m glad he likes longrifles, America’s first gun for one! But they’re beautiful too. if I were in the US I’d get a Kibler kit. Pretty well done on the historical accuracy and brilliant locks. They won’t ship here unfortunately.

My favourite time period in history is pre and just post of the F&I wars. I have French ancestry so I suppose that plays a hand in my interest but it’s such a fascinating time.
My favourite gun is my fusil de chasse, a French smoothbore flintlock from the time period. I had an English trade gun but sold it a while back.

Currently waiting on a custom English sporting rifle in 58 cal. 2 years into a 1 year wait now

I love he’s on the ball with those pinfires, I know a guy that has one but I’ve never fired or held it myself. Sounds like you’re bringing them up the right way

Those Kibler's are impressive, I just took a look at his site.

Looking forward to finishing the pistol, he takes things seriously and I get reminded if we don't clean his lever gun after a few shots out back. He'll love the extra maintenance on a muzzleloader. He calls me out if I start to put anything away without at least running a boresnake down the barrel..."Dad you said we should clean them every time"!

Both my kids are old souls in a lot of ways and like anything frontier or old west. Flintlocks and tomahawks are my son's thing. My daughter wants to build a town where everyone has to ride a horse to go anywhere, no cars. Sounds good to me!