What about that Salayan?

Pen,
One thing I like about the traditional Khukuri handle is the flare at the butt. When chopping, the flare at the butt gives such a good grip both to the fingers and to the heel of the hand. I wonder how secure the handle design of your Salayan would be? Just thinking out loud. I have a design on the board for a khuk that I want to make out of 3/8" A2. It is kinda between an M43 and a YCS. When I get it nailed down, I'll post it for comments.

Steve
 
Steve = sounds great. Hope to see it soon.

About the handle butt -

In the pictures I've seen of Nepalis handling their khukuris, their hands never reach down to the butt of handle. It seems as though the butt is there just to prevent the handle from "slipping" away during use. This is fine for those with smaller hands. But for someone with chunky fingers and a big sweaty palm (like me) the ovoid butt plate tends to be very aggresive in removing pieces of my hand...:eek:

I got the opportunity to play around a bit with a Hanuman and Garud (as well as a golok and parang) and have realized that their handles are so much more comfortable in my hand - the reason being: there is no ovoid butt/plate.

Instead, the handles curve at the end like in my design. This is also consistent with many Busse designs which are touted for being easy to hold onto.

It is my hope that this handle's curved terminus will provide stability on 2 levels:

1 - One handed work: the pinky finger (sorry about the non-technical jargon, Ferrous :p ) will work as a lever to improve control and balance while still keeping the blade from slipping away.

2 - Two handed work: the bulb at the end should provide enough of a handle to slip at least 2 if not 3 fingers around it for added strength in a felling chop (either vertical or horizontal).

This brings me to my point, which is that this Salyan would not be a good martial arts piece, nor a good all-day user. Instead, you would reserve it for heavy clearing work and then finish the rest with a 15" AK or BAS.
 
"Did you put wood handles on the toilet flux fixtures in the Titanic II?"

If you gotta hang onto a toilet handle long enough for it to grow uncomfortable, it's time to cut back on the chili.:eek: ;)

Sarge
 
Originally posted by Kmark
Do khuks NEED to be that thick? For that matter, does any knife need to be that thick? It seems to me that battle khuks (the ones meant for combat, obviously) were thinner but more wide...is this true, or am I just imagining it?


I think the fact that HI khuks tend to be considerably thicker than their antique predecessors is the result of a change in the traditional time/materials equation.

Until comparatively recently, one of the main perameters of blade design was the difficulty of making high carbon steel. The traditional Japanese sword; the pattern-welded or Damascus blade; the old-time axehead made by forgewelding a carbon steel edge into a wrought iron head; these are examples of the lengths old-time craftsmen had to go to in order to create a hard steel cutting edge in the days before you could just fax an order to Admiral Steel and quote an AISI number.

Accordingly, the village kami couldn't afford to 'waste' precious high carbon steel. He made thin blades, and fullered them to spread the steel out without sacrificing strength or rigidity. All this, of course, took a lot of time and a lot of laborious work with the big hammer. But that was OK, because demand was limited to the village he lived in, where folks didn't tend to buy a new khuk every week...

Then along came the motor industry, with its amazing by-product; 5160 spring steel, the best material in history for forging large blades. Scrap truck springs mean that quality steel is now plentiful. However, truck springs are big and thick, and it takes a long time and a lot of effort to draw it down, especially with a small forge and a sledgehammer (as opposed to an electric-fan-powered forge and a power hammer). Meanwhile, the HI kamis are turning out khuks in umprecedented numbers, for export. They don't have time to draw down a half-inch-plus truck spring to between three-eighths and one-quarter; and they're no longer under such intense pressure to conserve material. Hence, khuks with thick spines.

Which is no bad thing, as we all know; they don't break, they don't bend, and the skill of the smiths mean the extra weight is made useful rather than cumbersome because they know how to design a perfectly balanced blade.

FWIW; it's not that easy to thicken up a leaf spring. Hammering on the spine of the spring tends to squash it up and therefore thicken it; but it also distorts it, so you have to lie it on the flat and even it up. When you do this, it draws out ie becomes longer and thinner; this is the essence of the process of drawing down. Uniformly 'jumping up' something like a leafspring to make it thicker without losing the *width* you need for shaping the blade is a tricky business, and would take an inordinate amount of time & effort. What you'd be likely to end up with would be a half-inch spring turned into a three-quarter square section bar, which you'd then have to fuller out to get the width you wanted. Much easier just to comb through the scrap pile and find a thicker piece of truck spring.
 
Originally posted by pendentive
Steve = sounds great. Hope to see it soon.

About the handle butt -


You've obviously thought it out well. I've got small hands, more like the Nepali, but I see your point. I might have to do some whittlin' to see if I want to stay with the traditional handle shape.

See ya,
Steve
 
Nice drawings Pen! I would like a Salyan in the 15 inch size at max. I have over a dozen + 18-25 inch khukuris and I don't think I would buy another "long" one. I like to carry khukuris where I go and 15 inch is just about as big as I can carry for long periods of time. Maybe the Kamis could make the Salyan shape in 15 inch and 18+ inch size?:)

I think a replica of Uncle Bill's Salyan would be a huge seller!:)
 
Originally posted by SkagSig40
I think a replica of Uncle Bill's Salyan would be a huge seller!:)
I agree. Perhaps we can talk to Uncle to see if he would go for that idea, but perhaps with a horn or wood handle, to keep the cost down...?
 
Originally posted by pendentive
I agree. Perhaps we can talk to Uncle to see if he would go for that idea, but perhaps with a horn or wood handle, to keep the cost down...?

What do you think Uncle Bill? I really think this would be a huge hit! We could call it the "avatar khuk";)
 
This is a design I'm working on. I'll make it from 3/8" A2 tool steel by stock removal. Design isn't firm yet. It may change radically before I start grinding.

Steve
 
Cool Ferguson! What knid of grinder do you use? I'm just starting to get the equipment I need to make some of my own knives! :D
 
Looks like an M43 and a Ganga Ram Special had a little fun together!

I'm all for the Salyan, but I think I'm khuked out until spring - I have five or six that seem like they're barely out of the box, and need to be sharpened, woodchucked, and otherwise tweaked past perfection.

I also think that a normally-proportioned Salyan would be fine - something in the 16-18" range, with normal thickness.
 
Originally posted by SkagSig40
Cool Ferguson! What knid of grinder do you use?

I bought a Coote. It's the least expensive (except for the Grizzly). It comes without a motor, but you can usually scrounge a 1 or 1.5 hp. My choice would be a KMG from Rob Frink, but the Coote is good.

Steve
 
Originally posted by ferguson
I bought a Coote. It's the least expensive (except for the Grizzly). It comes without a motor, but you can usually scrounge a 1 or 1.5 hp. My choice would be a KMG from Rob Frink, but the Coote is good.

Steve

Yeah I have talked to Rob about the KMG and I think I'm going to get it. Hopefully this time next year I'll be making knives! Good luck with your project and post a picture when you are done!:)
 
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