What About the Edge?

ddavelarsen

ddavelarsen

Joined
Dec 7, 2000
Messages
5,179
Recently I finished a knife I know is going to be used (No. 49) and I know what it's going to be used for - field dressing game.

As I was putting the edge on it I got thinking back about some of the discussion here. Usually I know my knives are not going to cut much but paper and arm hair :D and for that a nice polished scary sharp edge is very impressive.

But this I thought was different. Dang though, all the possibilities could've tied me up in a knot...important decision! This guy's reaction to the way the knife works could have a big impact on future business, both from him and his hunting and shooting buddies. This is a real opportunity, to have one getting put to real life work. I want to give it its best chance. :)

I thought this one should be kind of "toothy," so I ended up putting the edge on with a broken in 220 belt and polishing the wire edge off on the buffer. It seemed to drag more through hard cardboard, but cut for a long long time and still could shave. So I figured it should be able to deal with both hair and hide and cut through gristle and other stuff. I was pretty satisfied.

But what about you? What would you have done for this skinning edge? I'm really interested in how people whose knives get used form their edges. Thanks for any ideas.
 
Just my experience, but, polished works better for meat and other "foods", and toothy works better for rope, etc.
 
Dave, Hi,

Wayne Goddard did a symposium one year at the Oregon show about this very subject. He proved with cutting rope that the "toothy edge" can make more cuts through a rope before sliding than the "polished edge" although the polished edge shaved better. The more aggressive edge (toothy) was put on with a medium arkansas stone by hand and stropped on leather. The polished edge was done with the belt and buffer. He made a believer out of me but I still use a fresh 320/400 belt on the grinder and a hard cardboard wheel with white rouge to remove the burr an have never heard complaints from the hunters.
 
This is good stuff. I was more concerned about cutting through the hide than quartering the meat, but I sure see the point. I will alert my customer that I can change the edge if he thinks it's too harsh. I sure did like the way it cut cardboard though! :D

Bruce I know a woodcarver who uses the cardboard wheel and white compound too; it works great. He uses that alone to maintain his knives and they sure stay sharp.

Dave
 
Dave, one other thing that was found, the toothier the edge, the more chance of chipping.:eek:
 
Mike that rings true for me. I can imagine that edge getting caught in a bone cut. It's pretty hardy but that would certainly make it more likey to chip than a convex edge gliding through the cut would...

Keep the ideas coming please!

Dave
 
Originally posted by ddavelarsen
Mike that rings true for me. I can imagine that edge getting caught in a bone cut. It's pretty hardy but that would certainly make it more likey to chip than a convex edge gliding through the cut would...

Keep the ideas coming please!
i use a slack norton norzac x100 this gives a convex toothy edge. then hand strop to remove the burr. i prefer this to polished edge for all food and meat work. i also think the polished edge will work better for the shaving push cut, but knives work on a draw or pull cut. dave it also depends on the customer. some don't think it is sharp unless it will shave, and thats because some one taught them that. there really no right way! people are differnt. so i tell customers that i use a toothy edge, if they say they want polished well then thats what they get.
Click to expand...
 
My two cents...

I sharpen my blades on a fine India (aluminum oxide) stone. I remove the burr with a few light strokes at a high angle. Then, I burnish the edge on a SMOOTH butcher's steel 4 or 5 strokes on each side-- no more, or you will burnish the teeth away. I find this gives a shaving sharp edge (yeah, I know, if they want to shave they should buy a razor, but like it or not, it's the first thing most people do when they get their hands on their new knife) but still retains the aggresive toothiness.

Most of my blades are ATS-34 at Rc. 60. For softer blades I use the same procedure but with a soft Arkansas stone.
 
Field dressing and other things that require bumping against hard surfaces and cutting tuff stuff is sometimes best served by an edge of greater angle. I, for instance, have liked my edges in the area of 23 - 25 degrees for field dressing and de-boning. (I wish this forum would get a spelling checker; or I wish I could find it.)

Roger
 
Thanks Mike but all those type things are overhead to the system.
Lots of people I talk to say things are running quickly enough but many of them have not seen their computer clean in many months. They have become used to it. If using Windows, do a 'Ctrl-Alt-Del' (once only) and take a look at all that junk running in the background.

What I was really complaining about was my own short coming. Spelling. And besides, why can't a sophisticated editor, such as this one, incorporate a spelling checker. Maybe it does and I just haven't found it.
 
Roger,
I realize that you were just joking around about spelling, but for what it's worth, I highly recommend ieSpell for Internet Explorer users.

It is not a memory/system resource hog. In fact, it does not load on bootup and remain resident in memory. It attaches itself to Internet Explorer like a plug-in. When called upon from IE to spell check, the memory load is a mere 3.9K. Once spell checking is finished, it frees up that memory. If you check the resources while spell checking, you still won't literally see ieSpell in memory. You will see an increase on IE of about 3 - 4K. After spell checking, it drops back down to normal.

I just noticed that a new version was released on 6/12/2003. I'm still using the previous version. Memory usage could vary a bit from what I've reported, but I'm sure it will be close.

ieSpell is only for IE. It does not work with other browsers or Windows apps. The look and feel is like the spell checker in MS Word.

### ADDENDUM:

In case some folks are interested in using ieSpell for forums, I should clarify one thing. I stated that ieSpell does not work with any browser or apps other than IE. If you are using one of the many IE browser shells such as MyIE, NeoPlanet, CrazyBrowser, etc. which work by accessing the IE engine, it will work.

The only difference is that you call up the spell checker by using a right mouse click, and selecting it from the context menu. When using ieSpell with IE itself, you have the choice of the right-click menu, selection from the "Tools" menu at the top of the browser, or optionally from a button that can be added to your IE toolbar. It is a really cool little utility.
 
I had those two in my favorites, but what I use is an American Heritage Dictionary, that sits next to the keyboard.;) :D
 
Back to the edge thing... I make and use heavily. As with Roger, I feel that the angle is more important to the integrity of the edge. For the knives I sell (and fully expect each to be used)I put the polished edge on for an impressive first edge. Each user will add his / her own sharpening tactics to the blade once in use. For example, if at home, I sharpen my own blades with stones down to soft arkansas and strop as the finest. Really is quite a polished blade. But, in the field or during butchering I use an old worn out diamond steel. The steel leaves the blade a little "toothy" as y'all mention. For all practical matters if skinning and butchering I don't tell much difference between the two edges. But, I'm not laying side by side on a sharpening test either.

First impression and Razor sharp.

Dan
Bearpaw Knives
www.bearpawknives.com
 
Terry, Thanks. I'll do a search.

Mike, your method is best and the way to learn how to spell correctly.

Dan, what angle do you put on butchering edges??

RL
 
Roger,

I don't go over sized with the blades and stick to a 3-1/2" drop point blade for all of the butchering (except for the second skin, that tough blue film on the roasts gets the fillet knife...). I've had to measure the angle, I do most of the edges by feel. The edge comes out around 22-25 degrees, give or take. I've got my fingers calibrated for consistency, but not for measurement...

Dan
Bearpaw Knives
 
Roger, I put a toothy edge on hunters, polished edge on meat cutting because most folks that are cutting a lot of meat don't want a lot of drag when making the cut. My 8 years in a packing house strongly suggests this. When you are cutting meat all day, you want the least effort, and everyone strived to have the sharpest and smoothest edge they could attain. Fine edges tend to roll when they contact bone, while meat cutting. That's why you see the folks steeling their blades when they have a few spare seconds between carcasses, which happens only on occassions. How IMPORANT is a really sharp edge when professionally cutting meat in a packinghouse? Ask all the folks with tendonitis.
 
Dave I only skin kangaroos nothing over 6 ft tall. No big game.

I always tend to skin from inside the skin outwards. The hair is not a problem.

My brother and father are butchers. They sharpen all their knives one way flat from the back to the front edge. They are butchering and boning they work all day and just sharpen as required. They do have a pouch of knives suited to each task. The only opinion I would have is what does the customer want/ what would he know. Some would not know what they want because they don't use the knife often enough to know.
Others would be regular users who know exactly how they want it.

The trouble with a general purpose knife is it is not realy good at anything but ok at everything. If the customer just wanted it for a specific purpose I would sharpen to that. If not give him the middle of the road with a slightly more robust edge for strength in case he wants to chop down the last redwood.

There you go a lot of words but no answers.
 
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