What am I doing wrong??

[Rebel4ever]

Jondllass, thanks for that clear play by play recap. I think my problem lies in 1) I need to slow down 2) I need to use less pressure on the stones and 3) I too, need to learn how long to stay on a given stone before moving on to the next one. Your explanation was a big help. Thanks.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

By the way - my screen name is supposed to be JonDallas311 but I had a typo when I registered. I can't figure out how to modify my screen name. So I guess I'm stuck with a typo in my name...stupid. What was I saying earlier about trying to do things too fast??

Reading your updates, it sounds like you're 'on the path' in the right direction now. :thumbup:

Getting a feel for the behavior of burrs on the paper will take some time, but I think you're on track, based on the improvement you're seeing in your work. The mention earlier, of your thumb being chewed up with the little cuts is a GOOD sign (my thumbs & fingertips are perpetually in this state ). As far as trying to figure out when to move the next stone, that'll come with more practice. A good exercise is to assign yourself a 'project' to sharpen using ONLY your Coarse stone, without relying on finer stones to refine to shaving-sharpness. When you've only got one relatively coarse grit to work with, it forces you to pay much closer attention to use of pressure and maintaining a consistent angle; these are the things that will improve results all the way across the board, when done right. As has been mentioned, a coarse grit will magnify all of the 'bad' effects of poor technique; the better your results get at coarser grit, the (much) better they'll be at finer finish.

Also, the mention that you've noticed how the forward portion of the edge gets sharp before the rear (heel) portion; that's VERY common, and is just an artifact of most blade geometry, which is almost always thicker steel and wider edge angles toward the rear of the blade, on the factory edges. I was glad to see you noticed this; don't worry about it, but instead just be aware that it's common and takes more time to get it sharp.

You might be able to change your username with a paid membership; here's a link to an 'Announcement' from Spark (site owner) in the Tech Support forum:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=679&a=202

Might take some time (Spark is a very busy man), but there's at least one way to get it done.


David

 

[HeavyHanded]

It's obvious to me that this is a process where all of the elements have to be correct or the results simply won't be there. And these stones have completely changed my perception of "sharp". It has taken all of my previous perceptions and raised them to a point that I never experienced. The fun part for me will be perfecting this process and my technique. I know I'm still making mistakes and I need to better understand the burr/paper relationship and when to change to the next stone. If anyone has any tips on this please feel free to share. And thanks for your question Rebel. I'm glad to know that others were helped out by this thread.

My take on this is based on how well I've detected that burr, and how much more work/how many more steps I plan on doing.

If I'm at the coarse level, I want that burr gone like I'm going to stop there and use the knife as is. If I'm coming off the medium stone and going to a finer one, I'll let it go with a ghost of a burr and eliminate it all on the finer stone. If I can get the entire thing, I'll do so but is not as important as catching it at the rougher stages IMHO.

Instead of a flashlight, you could (if possible/practical) switch to using a single source strong overhead light, or at least have the overhead be the strongest light in the area. Then it is as simple as holding it to your eyes right where you stand (no ball caps) and let the light play along it. With familiarity, it is possible to detect virtually 100% of all burrs. I believe the human eye can see a candle at several miles in the dark, properly illuminated is possible to visually detect the presence/absence of a burr no matter how small. A loupe of approx 8-12x is also a big help in this regard but not necessary as long as your near vision is OK.

My sharpening intent clarified a great deal when I adopted the philosophy that sharpening is really the art of shaping steel by creating and removing the burr, and protecting the edge geometry at the finishing steps.

Edit to add:
At any level if one is unsure of the burr, you can stop and wrap a sheet of plain copy, writing, or newsprint around the stone and strop a few times at the same working angle. This is actually capable of removing really small whispy burrs by itself, but the real value in this case is in shining up any existing burrs and making them a lot easier to see - they reflect light better.

 

[Jondllas311]

Thanks for the positive feedback David. I appreciate the confirmation that I'm on the right track. Your point about using only the coarse stone is a good one. I'll try that.

To HH, thanks for the tip about the burr. I'll try to remove it completely on the coarse stone. In regards to lighting, all the lights in my house suck. The flashlight was handy and bright so I went that route.

I've still got a ways to go before I get my routine and technique where I want it. But this thread has taught me more than MONTHS of research!! Thanks again to everyone who contributed. I'll keep at the free hand sharpening until I get it perfected!

 

[Jondllas311]

GOOD LORD!!!! Thank you David and HH!! I followed your tips about using just the coarse stone, working up a full burr and then removing it on the stone. I used SUPER light strokes to remove it and my god this thing cuts paper like no other knife. It's cleaner cutting than the one I did last night!

Thank you so much for the tips. It has finally "clicked" for me!

 

[Squashfan]

Feels nice when it clicks don't it? I still remember that feeling. Good job and enjoy. Before long you will be popping hair off of the back of your hand with a knife you sharpened and steeled on the bottom and top, respectively, of a coffee mug.

 

[Jondllas311]

Feels nice when it clicks don't it? I still remember that feeling. Good job and enjoy. Before long you will be popping hair off of the back of your hand with a knife you sharpened and steeled on the bottom and top, respectively, of a coffee mug.

Thanks! I've got a huge grin on my face right now. I'm a LONG way off from coffee mugs but I just finished the fine stone and it's definitely coming together. I was screwing up so bad on my coarse stone that I was doomed from the beginning to have a bad edge.

I'm totally addicted and I feel my OCD kicking in to keep trying to make it sharper!

 

[HeavyHanded]

GOOD LORD!!!! Thank you David and HH!! I followed your tips about using just the coarse stone, working up a full burr and then removing it on the stone. I used SUPER light strokes to remove it and my god this thing cuts paper like no other knife. It's cleaner cutting than the one I did last night!

Thank you so much for the tips. It has finally "clicked" for me!

You are very welcome! I recall at point where I deconstructed my technique after hitting a wall with the finer stones. Realized a bunch of core concepts when working off the coarse stones. Is a central value now - get good results at the low end and it carries forward. For some tough work environments, there is no better edge finish anyway.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

GOOD LORD!!!! Thank you David and HH!! I followed your tips about using just the coarse stone, working up a full burr and then removing it on the stone. I used SUPER light strokes to remove it and my god this thing cuts paper like no other knife. It's cleaner cutting than the one I did last night!

Thank you so much for the tips. It has finally "clicked" for me!

That's very good to hear. Nice work! :thumbup:

I still like to test myself with projects like that, and I'm finding there's always room for improvement. The hands will keep 'learning' these things and the feel for it becomes more refined, even when it seems like it's sometimes not 'clicking' in the mind. If you keep working at it, you'll occasionally see your hands magically 'know' how to do it now, when they seemingly didn't yesterday, and it'll surprise you.

When you can impress yourself with sharpness off of a coarse stone, that's when it becomes much more fun and interesting to see how the character of a 'sharp' edge will change with more refinement. Not any less-sharp (when still relying on the same good techniques), but the feel of the cutting changes and the edge gets 'scary' in new ways.


David

 

[Squashfan]

Thanks! I've got a huge grin on my face right now. I'm a LONG way off from coffee mugs but I just finished the fine stone and it's definitely coming together. I was screwing up so bad on my coarse stone that I was doomed from the beginning to have a bad edge.

I'm totally addicted and I feel my OCD kicking in to keep trying to make it sharper!

One thing that helped me is realizing that I don't always have to start on a coarse stone. I do 95% of all my knives on just the fine side of the India or SIC stone.

 

[Jondllas311]

That's very good to hear. Nice work! :thumbup:

I still like to test myself with projects like that, and I'm finding there's always room for improvement. The hands will keep 'learning' these things and the feel for it becomes more refined, even when it seems like it's sometimes not 'clicking' in the mind. If you keep working at it, you'll occasionally see your hands magically 'know' how to do it now, when they seemingly didn't yesterday, and it'll surprise you.

When you can impress yourself with sharpness off of a coarse stone, that's when it becomes much more fun and interesting to see how the character of a 'sharp' edge will change with more refinement. Not any less-sharp (when still relying on the same good techniques), but the feel of the cutting changes and the edge gets 'scary' in new ways.


David

Thanks! I definitely know I've still got tons to learn. In reading other threads I found the benefits of honing on the stone at a 45 degree angle. I've been using a straight 90 degree orientation of the blade. This should be an easy change and one that will hopefully yield even better cutting performance.

The fun part, for me at least, is the experimentation and working to perfect my technique. For me, it's a meditative thing and I find myself really enjoying the intense focus on my movements and the reaction of the blade to the plate. I also like taking apart and cleaning my guns so maybe I'm just weird.

I'm trying to work on a different knife each night and now I'm trying to ingrain my movements so it will become more muscle memory. Last night I started to try my S30V blade but it was really slow going and I stopped to keep from becoming too fatigued and screwing everything up again.

Anyway, like I said before, I'm grateful for the knowledge that has been shared and I'm looking forward to learning more. It should be a fun journey!