What an expensive San Mai knife should be

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Jun 12, 2006
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With all the "chatter" lately about the quality of the San Mai used in the expensive Cold Steel knives (AUS-8A/420JS sandwich), just thought I'd share the SOG offering of what a custom San Mai knife should be made from. I've found it on the net for as little as $250.

Considering the Arc-Lock system, titanium bolsters, and the beautiful bone handle, I'm actually considering a purchase. I personally think it's a beautiful, quality made knife. It also looks more practical and more comforable to carry the those wierd blade configurations (my opinion) offered in the so called "high end" CS's.

http://www.sogknives.com/Folding/Arcitech/A01.htm

Regards
 
robertmegar said:
Check out Kershaw Nakamura.

I tend to stay away from liner locks when possible but a VERY nice offering, especially for the price. Kershaw liner locks seem to be some of the best in fit and finish.
 
Looks like a nice EDC design. Like the blade profile.

Price scares me off, but then I don't think SOG makes that many limmited editions, so rarety has its cost.
 
orthogonal1 said:
Looks like a nice EDC design. Like the blade profile.

Price scares me off, but then I don't think SOG makes that many limmited editions, so rarety has its cost.

But at least you get something for your money compared to the AUS-8 San Mia used in the CS offerings. And the locking system has been tested to 1000 pounds, according to SOG.
 
For fixed blades, Fallkniven San Mai is VG10 core as well. F1, H1, A1, A2, and all the northern lights series except the fancy Idun which is damascus with Cowry x in the middle.
 
Check Higonokami- $15 knife with warikomy - laminated blade (real name of so called SanMai). And it is real laminated blade with Shirogami core and raw iron on sides.

There is no reason to put AUS8 as a core for laminated blade. It should be brittle or expensive high carbon which protected by cheap steel. But to have cheap steel laminated by other even cheaper steel - what the point?

Falkniven has some laminated blades with SGPS steel in core, also Mcusta offering really nice laminated blades with VG10 in core and multilayered sides. Also Helle making exteremely sharp laminated blades. As well as Kanetsune.

ColdSteel does not look so strong in this market, really.

Spyderco Callipso Jr is probably best example of laminated blade knife - with ZDP189 core and high corresion resistant 420 sides, both steels just in place on my opinion, cost was aroung $80.

Thanks, Vassily.
 
Kershaw Nakamura.


I tend to stay away from liner locks when possible but a VERY nice offering, especially for the price.
You might worry in a tactical knife, but the Nakamura being a gentleman's knife, it really won't see the kind of torque that might defeat a cheap liner in a bigger knife.

With those bolsters and the overall design, it's a real gem ...
 
Far as folders go, I'd agree that the ZDP knives from Spyderco, or the U2 from Falkniven represent real values. What an expensive San Mai knife should be, however, for me is summed up in one of Burt Foster's San Mai blades (W2 core w/ 416 (?) stainless sides).
 
Sorry how can I forget. Here expensive but still reasonable knife with laminated blade.

G-SAkai Bosen Encuto:

Laminated blade core is SRS-15 (Stainless Powder Metallurgy High Speed steel) and more stainless SUS-405 steel on the sides. I think this is a best example of real laminated blade made for use in mind:

G-Sakai-Bosen-Enkuto-013.jpg


Term laminated blade used for long time and there is no reason to use some PR creation - "San Mai", it is not as it called in Japan - laminated blades in Japan called waricomy or clay but if you check nobody use this "SanMai". Usually majority of knives in Japan (for internal market) are made with laminated blades and they did not mention it as it is almost by default.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I speak some Japanese but have never heard the term "san mai" used in Japan. If it were, it would be written and pronounced "sam mai" since the "n" pronounciation changes to "m" when followed by either the letter "m" or "b". You would never see an "n" followed by an "m".

I'm guessing "san mai" is US marketspeak for 3-layers or 3-layered.

*edited to add the final line.
 
San Mai is a name given to laminated blades by Cold Steel. It is, in fact, their trade mark. The Japanese call it warikomi.
 
Jnak said:
mcusta has a sanmai blade knife. it is the katana
mc-42c1.jpg

This one actually called Suminogashi - mean laminated blade with "damascus" sides. In Japan they invent process to make this laminaed blades in production. And it combines cutting ability of solid steel (VG10 in this case) and "beauty" of "damascus" (which I do not like really).

So it look lke CS has pretty active marketing - Tanto blades, San Mai, CarbonV... What else they came up with?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
has anyone got any experience with the Mcusta's? they sure look nice, and iv been thinking of getting one for a while, the prices seem fair enough.
 
Years ago I knew someone who came up with what I thought was a great idea. He took the gas line of a car and inserted a steel tube. Surrounding the tube where the fuel flowed was another tube, one he was able to plug that into the radiator line. That way, very hot water would heat up the 3-4-inch tube through which the fuel flowed. The idea was simple: make cold fuel hot before it went into the cylinder and fuel efficiency would soar. You'd also get a cleaner burn.

Great idea except it didn't seem to work. It was an idea that they'd had in World War II to extend the range of torpedos, except it didn't quite work that well then, either. Still, he sold quite a few before the state made him stop. But what the heck, I was a big believer. It was such a great idea that it never occurred to me to actually test it.

San Mai is one of those things that I think works well on paper. But instead of gaining the strengths of three various steels, I worry about getting the weaknesses of the three types of steel instead. The idea is good, but I'm not sure the concept has ever been tested.

Cold Steel's website says, for example: "A simple way to think of this type of construction is to imagine a sandwich: The meat center is hard, high carbon steel and the pieces of bread on either side are the lower-carbon, tough side panels. Generally the edge of the blade should be hard to maximize edge holding ability, but if the entire blade was hard it could be damaged during the rigors of battle."

But what kind of center? What's the Rockwell hardness of the core? Is it 59? How about 60? Will sandwiching it in tough cheaper steel also make the core tough? Well, what would happen if you took glass and coated it with steel?

The best bet, I'd think, would be to use a good premium steel like VG-10, S 30V or 154 CM and then really watch the quality control. Sure it's harder to sharpen, but I don't see people with them complaining. Maybe it's because they're not sharpening their blades that often.

If the center steel is brittle, I think the layers wouldn't be enough to absorb the shock. In short, I hate to say it, but until someone tests it, I'd say San Mai = snake oil. I certainly wouldn't spend the large amounts of money on something that hadn't been tested.

cs60bt.jpg
 
durbanposion said:
has anyone got any experience with the Mcusta's? they sure look nice, and iv been thinking of getting one for a while, the prices seem fair enough.

I picked one up in Tokyo earlier this year and I really like it. Fit and finish are very nice and the action is pretty smooth. It locks very solidly and comes razor sharp. I haven't used it enough to sharpen it yet, but it should be as good as any other.
I give it a :thumbup:
 
Confederate said:
Great idea except it didn't seem to work.

Don't worry this technology works for centuries especially in Scandinavia and in Japan - majority if knives there are laminated.

Thanks Vassili.
 
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