what angle on Sharpmaker for GEC and Case slip joints?

colubrid

colubrid

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I am having a hard time sharpening a couple new peanut in SS I received and some GEC Acorns with the sharpmaker. I was wondering what angle you think I should use with the sharpmaker on slippies. I use both the 30 and 40 but neither seem to work. Just wondering which angle I should stick with for all Case peanuts and GEC folders?
 
I don't know about GEC, but Case used to recommend holding the blade at 10° to the stone when sharpening.
I don't know if they've changed their recommendation.
 
How does 10% translate to the sharpmaker? Would it be the 30 or 40 degree?
 
For Case knives, I use the Sharpmaker as Sal Glessar instructed on the instructional DVD.

I use the 40° inclusive for the primary grind. I use the 30° inclusive to thin the shoulders. Another way to say that is "use the 30° and put an edge on it, then come back with a 40° micro-bevel on just the edge".

It makes up for the softness of the Case steel. I've tried thinner edges and they don't work for me on Case knives.
 
Yes, that is exactly how I do it ^^^. I use the same sharpening technique and angles on my Case knives as I do with GEC knives. After using the Sharpmaker I then do several passes on a leather strop.

I do recommend watching the Sal Glessar video that comes with every Spyderco Sharpmaker.
 
knarfeng said:
For Case knives, I use the Sharpmaker as Sal Glessar instructed on the instructional DVD.

I use the 40° inclusive for the primary grind. I use the 30° inclusive to thin the shoulders. Another way to say that is "use the 30° and put an edge on it, then come back with a 40° micro-bevel on just the edge".

It makes up for the softness of the Case steel. I've tried thinner edges and they don't work for me on Case knives.
Click to expand...


I have been using both the 30 and 40. I have a brand new Case Peanut in SS that I was sharpening for two hours tonight (off and on for 2 hours). And I cannot get a shaving sharp edge on it. I used the diamond rods, course and then fine. I still get a terrible lip (burr) I can feel and hear clicking with my fingernail on the same side. I wonder if it is the stainless steel being to hard or the angle I am using? I think I already removed enough metal with my persistence. Not sure what else to try.
 
The steel is almost certainly OK, the Sharpmaker system works, and Frank has given good advice. We all have 'off days' though, when for whatever reason, you can struggle to get a great edge. My advice would be to put the job aside and come back to it another day. Then get yourself a good strong magnifying glass or loupe, and really have a look at the edge, see how it was ground, and how your sharpening is going. It may be that you need to compensate some in terms of your sharpening, possibly the original edge was not ground evenly, or maybe (like most of us) you're sharpening one side of the edge slightly more than the other. If you're raising a burr, you should be able to get an edge, and there's always the trick with the marker pen :thumbsup:
 
Jack Black said:
The steel is almost certainly OK, the Sharpmaker system works, and Frank has given good advice. We all have 'off days' though, when for whatever reason, you can struggle to get a great edge. My advice would be to put the job aside and come back to it another day. Then get yourself a good strong magnifying glass or loupe, and really have a look at the edge, see how it was ground, and how your sharpening is going. It may be that you need to compensate some in terms of your sharpening, possibly the original edge was not ground evenly, or maybe (like most of us) you're sharpening one side of the edge slightly more than the other. If you're raising a burr, you should be able to get an edge, and there's always the trick with the marker pen :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
I know of a marker trick but not necessarily the one you’re talking about Jack could you explain. As for the original post, I don’t use a sharp maker so can’t be sure this applies but I think it does. When I have had a burr in the past that won’t seem to go away I have noticed that it is often when I check it after stopping on the same side each time. I have also found that when I am only using stones it seems to just flip flop from one side to the other and doesn’t go away. I have had some success knocking it off by dragging the edge down a semi hard piece of wood like a cutting board or butcher block counter top. I always follow this with a few light passes on a stop with bark river grey compound, sometimes just the strip is enough if it is not a large or stubborn burr.
 
I sharpen GEC, Case and other traditional knives the same way as any other knife. What might be different than you are used to, is that most GEC and Case knives will come with an edge that is not symmetrical. That is, on one side, you are hitting the apex, whereas on the other side, you are still hitting the shoulder, and it will take longer to reach the apex. That's why I've found it's best not to count how many strokes you are doing per side. (it's been a long time since I've watched the instructional video) Do one side at 30 degrees until you can just barely feel a burr. That means you've reached the apex. Then do the other side until you've either removed that burr, or just barely made one on the other side. Then light passes at 40 degrees to remove the last bit of burr, and give you a micro bevel. Good luck!
 
I've had GEC knives that came with what I think of as a "collectors edge", ie greater than 40 degrees. That makes the primary bevel narrow. They were sharp, but all the Sharpmaker does is grind away at the shoulder. Unless you have diamond rods for the Sharpmaker, it's going to take a long time to make progress. If you mark the bevel with a sharpie and then sharpen for a few strokes you can see where you're taking off material. You might need a magnifier. That will tell you whether it's you or not. I've had such variable luck with factory edges from all makers that I routinely reprofile all of my knives to 10dps on the Edgepro and then use the Sharpmaker at 30 degrees for a micro bevel. Some knives end up with an amazingly wide primary bevel. If the edge breaks down quickly, I resharpen a bit more at first and the micro bevel gets wide enough to hold up. If the edge won't hold up with a modestly sized 30 degree micro bevel, I dump the knife. 1095 from GEC does just fine for normal EDC stuff with an edge like that. There's a trick for getting rid of work-hardened steel at the apex of the edge so that the edge lasts longer which becomes useful for fine edges, but let's get the basics down first.
 
For the first 45 years or so of my knife sharpening experience, like my grandfather showed me, I used the freehand method. This was handled with mostly carborundum and some Arkansas stones. For a strop I took a length of old leather belt and glued it to a board. I didn’t know anything about compounds or any of that type info so I just kept the leather lightly oiled. All of this worked for me for a long time. Now I use a Sharpmaker for 90% of my sharpening needs along with some ceramic stones, ceramic rods and of course a good butcher steel for the kitchen Cutlery. All of this being said, I wholeheartedly concur with what Frank and others have said about their Sharpmaker methods. Definitely watch the video, I have several times especially when I forget the technique for scissors or some of the other less frequently used methods.
 
As narrow as possible, on the SM. That would be 30° inclusive (15°/side). I've actually drilled my own base/blocks, for round ceramic rods I use, at 25° inclusive (12.5°/side), which I use for touching up my Case pocketknives (stainless, CV), Buck, Victorinox and any other. All of my freehand-sharpened edges wind up in the 25° inclusive ballpark, so a V-crock setup at that same geometry works real well for me.

Cutting geometry at 40° inclusive really doesn't help anything at all, when sharpening relatively 'soft' steels like Case's stainless or any other similar steel. The steel itself will still deform under tough/abusive use; that means instead of rolling the edge, it'll flatten/dent the apex at wider edge angles, under hard use. Effective cutting pretty much STOPS in it's tracks at 40°, when the edge deforms. That drove me CRAZY when I first started collecting & using such knives; just a little flattening of the apex on the factory edge, and effective cutting is DONE. And it happens pretty quickly. So, if it's going to deform anyway, I feel it more useful to still retain some decent cutting geometry in the meantime. For me, that means 25° inclusive or lower on everything I use, with one possible exception for ZDP-189, which is very, very brittle at the hardness it's typically treated to, and prone to chipping or cracking at anything lower than 30° inclusive (I learned this the hard way).

For normal, non-abusive cutting tasks (no twisting or heavy chopping, or screwdriver use, etc), such knives will always do better for longer at 30° inclusive or lower, than something more obtuse. And if you are careful with what/how you cut, there's another BIG jump in cutting performance at 25° inclusive or so. And at that geometry, such edges are also very easy to align back into shape on something like a smooth kitchen steel, if/when they roll a little bit. That's the ironic upside to using steels as relatively 'soft' as these are, as they're actually easier to work back into shape with a minimal loss of steel in doing so.

If having difficulty setting bevels at something narrower than the factory edge, a Fine diamond hone (600-grit) can do it very quickly on something as small & thin as a Peanut's blades are. Or a SiC or aluminum oxide oilstone at ~320 or lower can also do it quickly. Aftermarket triangular rods are available in such grits, adaptable to the SM, if not wanting to spend the $$ on the diamond or CBN rods.
 
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colubrid said:
I am having a hard time sharpening a couple new peanut in SS I received and some GEC Acorns with the sharpmaker. I was wondering what angle you think I should use with the sharpmaker on slippies. I use both the 30 and 40 but neither seem to work. Just wondering which angle I should stick with for all Case peanuts and GEC folders?
Click to expand...
I use 30 to thin the edge then 40 and finish with a strop. After that I keep them sharp with a loaded strop.
 
I think I see the problem you are having. You need to remove the burr. If you're getting a burr on both sides, your work is done at that grit. Then move to a higher grit, get a burr on both sides, then move to a higher grit. Do this until you have no higher grits, then strop. You can use leather, cardboard, etc., and use compound or not, but the point is to polish the burr off. Then your blade will be sharp. Alternatively, a few light, alternating passes on your rods, at a steeper angle, can remove the burr, and make your blade sharp.
 
Kbrasmodeler said:
I think I see the problem you are having. You need to remove the burr. If you're getting a burr on both sides, your work is done at that grit. Then move to a higher grit, get a burr on both sides, then move to a higher grit. Do this until you have no higher grits, then strop. You can use leather, cardboard, etc., and use compound or not, but the point is to polish the burr off. Then your blade will be sharp. Alternatively, a few light, alternating passes on your rods, at a steeper angle, can remove the burr, and make your blade sharp.
Click to expand...


I have tried steep angle and still can't seem to remove the burr. I don't know what the deal is on the SS Peanut. Seems like every angle I try the burr stays.
I used a single sharpmaker stick to brush out the burr from going the other direction and it seems to have removed it but then the blade is dull as can be again. Then I go back to using the shapmaker the conventional way and the burr returns.

The Peanut must either have a really steep angle or none at all. Plus it being super hard stainless maybe something to do with it,.
 
Case’s tru sharp is actually very soft. And is really susceptible to creating a burr that turns to a foil edge. That being said, I have had excellent luck with the sharpmaker system and the lansky knockoff. I get the burr as small as I can using light alternating strokes and run it through cork or soft wood ( recently bought a piece of really compacted felt that works well) to break off the foil edge and follow up on an old style razor strop with red rouge to finish she cleaning/polishing the edge. After that the strop keeps it sharp after use.
Are you able to flip the burr from side to side?
 
jwb01 said:
Are you able to flip the burr from side to side?
Click to expand...

I think this may be the issue, establish the burr on both sides first so you know you have reached the apex. When I use a sharpmaker like this, and I can feel the burr on the second side, I then use alternating strokes to remove it. So on the side where you can feel the burr use like 10 light passes, then 10 on the other side, then 8, etc. Then run it through a cork or cardboard, and on to the white stones alternating one pass per side the conventional way you in the sharpmaker videos.
 
Whetstone39 said:
I think this may be the issue, establish the burr on both sides first so you know you have reached the apex. When I use a sharpmaker like this, and I can feel the burr on the second side, I then use alternating strokes to remove it. So on the side where you can feel the burr use like 10 light passes, then 10 on the other side, then 8, etc. Then run it through a cork or cardboard, and on to the white stones alternating one pass per side the conventional way you in the sharpmaker videos.
Click to expand...
^^^^This is what I was trying to say. Even on a major reprofile when I bust out the wicked edge, I work until I build the burr on one side and the the other, then work gingerly to remove it and pull it through a media that will help remove it before moving to the next grit stone.
 
jwb01 said:
^^^^This is what I was trying to say. Even on a major reprofile when I bust out the wicked edge, I work until I build the burr on one side and the the other, then work gingerly to remove it and pull it through a media that will help remove it before moving to the next grit stone.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:

Also for the stainless steel Case uses, if I want a 30 degree inclusive angle, I stop on the grey flats for a bit of a toothy edge. It lasts a little longer for my uses.
 
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