What are best value (price/performance) stainless steels?

PIndelicato

PIndelicato

Joined
Sep 16, 2002
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1,577
Hi all,

I've so far only worked with non-stainless steels (O-1 & 5160) and I'd like to try out some stainless or stain-resistant steel for a change of pace. Steels like S30v I think are a bit too rich for my blood at this point, although I haven't really compared prices that much yet because I don't know how they all compare.

So, what are the best values, and why, in stainless or stain-resistant steels when considering price and performance? D2? A2? 154CM? ATS-34? 440C? (I make mainly small to medium sized knives with 3-6" blades.)

Thanks in advance for any enlightenment (or links with good info)!
 
154cm is a good steel at a resonable price.One of my favorites.330-c if H/Ted correctly will make a great blade also.
Stan
 
13C26 has a nice balance in both price and performance IF you can deal with the fact that it tends to arrive with a slight but annoying lengthwise curve from Admiral. I've heard that Sandvik ships it in large rolls so it may not be Admiral's fault but ...
 
You've asked a question, the answers to which are going to get some people's backs up - but since the question is honest, I'll offer my OPINION. :)

A2 comes off your list cause it really isn't anywhere near stainless.

D2 is well respected in the hands of the right maker and heat treat. CPM D2 even better.

440C makes a serviceable blade, but I can't see any good reason to use it.

154CM and ATS34 are pretty much the same, with the ATS34 nicer on the outside and the 154 cleaner on the inside - though both are rarely a problem. Both are at least as tough, more wear resistant and more corrosion resistant than 440C. They also machine and grind easily and heat treat predictably. These would be the answer to your question about value for price.

Don't be too quick to discount the higher end steels like S30V or CPM154. If you are going to spend 20 - 50 hours making a knife, an extra $1 an inch for a superior blade steel can make big differences in performance.

There are dozens of others out there, but I think think that answers your question.

My apologies to lovers of 440C :o It's just my opinion.

Rob!
 
SBuzek said:
154cm is a good steel at a resonable price.One of my favorites.330-c if H/Ted correctly will make a great blade also.
Stan
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Mike Quesenberry said:
I'm not much of a stainless guy, but have used CPM 154cm and really like it.
Click to expand...

Mike and Stan, thanks for the input. Stan, I assume you meant 440-C and not 330-C? Also, is there a big difference between 154CM and CPM 154CM?

Dan Pierson said:
13C26 has a nice balance in both price and performance IF you can deal with the fact that it tends to arrive with a slight but annoying lengthwise curve from Admiral. I've heard that Sandvik ships it in large rolls so it may not be Admiral's fault but ...
Click to expand...

I haven't done any research on the Sandvik steels, so thanks for that suggestion Dan (although the lengthwise curve might be a dealbreaker for me...I have enough problems getting other things truly flat for some reason and I'm not sure I want to add another.)
 
Dan Pierson said:
13C26 has a nice balance in both price and performance IF you can deal with the fact that it tends to arrive with a slight but annoying lengthwise curve from Admiral. I've heard that Sandvik ships it in large rolls so it may not be Admiral's fault but ...
Click to expand...

Count me among the people really bummed to get a bunch of Sandvic steel in this condition from Admiral. The Admiral people were neither apologetic or helpful. I have a hard time finding thinner stainless (1/8") steels in wider stock (2") so fussing with the Sandvic steels until it's flat is just part of the process until what I have in stock is gone.

I will switch to something else one day, I'm sure, but I don't make nearly enough knives for that to be any time soon.
 
KnifeMaker.ca said:
You've asked a question, the answers to which are going to get some people's backs up - but since the question is honest, I'll offer my OPINION. :)

A2 comes off your list cause it really isn't anywhere near stainless.

D2 is well respected in the hands of the right maker and heat treat. CPM D2 even better.

440C makes a serviceable blade, but I can't see any good reason to use it.

154CM and ATS34 are pretty much the same, with the ATS34 nicer on the outside and the 154 cleaner on the inside - though both are rarely a problem. Both are at least as tough, more wear resistant and more corrosion resistant than 440C. They also machine and grind easily and heat treat predictably. These would be the answer to your question about value for price.

Don't be too quick to discount the higher end steels like S30V or CPM154. If you are going to spend 20 - 50 hours making a knife, an extra $1 an inch for a superior blade steel can make big differences in performance.

There are dozens of others out there, but I think think that answers your question.

My apologies to lovers of 440C :o It's just my opinion.

Rob!
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Thanks Rob!, that's exactly the sort of comparison I was hoping for and I should have stated in my first post that I wanted people to share their OPINIONS and experiences, and wasn't looking to start a war over which steel is 'best', as I believe there is really no such thing.

How would you compare and contrast the various properties of D2 vs. 154CM/ATS34?
 
P J 234 said:
Also, is there a big difference between 154CM and CPM 154CM?
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Basically the same chemistry, but since CPM 154CM is a powder steel it'll have finer and better carbide distribution and probably finer grain. All of this leads to finer, longer lasting edges and greater toughness. I've heard a point or two greater hardness as well but am not sure if that's true.

You an also count on it's being cleaner. Lots of makers here have stories about discovering the impurities in their piece of ATS 34 or 154 CM about the
time they reach 600 grit in hand sanding. The stories tend to involve swearing.
 
Dan is dead on with his info. My only other comment would be- ats34 and 154 cm have given me heartache at courser grits than 600. I've heard when they first came out they were really clean but methods have changed. The finish they produce is grainy and not at all pleasing to the eye. I will not use them.
 
Thanks again Dan and Mike; that's very good info to have. I will investigate CPM 154CM and compare to maybe D2, S30V, etc. and then make a decision as to what to try out first.
 
P J 234 said:
How would you compare and contrast the various properties of D2 vs. 154CM/ATS34?
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D2 is known for the edge it will take - even more so than the edge it will hold. It is very stain resistant compared to any other tool steel we have seen. CPM D2 is all that and more. I haven't made a knife from CPMD2 but I have Ht'ed a lot and customers are just raving about it.

154 CM and ATS34 are more corrosion resistant than D2 and have better wear resistence. They take a nice edge, but D2 is probably a sweeter edge if done properly. The flaws you have heard about are primarily on the ATS34 side these days (used to be the other way around) and they only affect maybe 1 - 2% of blades. A reputable supplier should replace the faulty steel, but they can't do anything to replace your work already done.

The two upgrades to consider (without getting silly) are S30V which will give outstanding performace but is almost impossible to mirror finish - and CPM 154 which performs almost as well as S30V and takes a wonderful mirror polish.

There are strong European contenders as well, but that's another whole discussion. :D

Rob!
 
Thank you again, Rob! It sounds like I should focus on CPM D2, CPM 154, and S30V and go from there.

I appreciate all of the great info!
 
Just my 2¢ worth is to say that s30v wasn't that much more expensive when I bought it at Knifemaker.ca. I may have been hallucinating, but it was actually cheaper than the other stainless on the site.

Los Angeles mentioned this, since s30v is made in such low quantities specifically for knifemaking, the biggest problem is availability of the sizes that you want. I believe this is due to the fact that Crucible hasn't made s30v in a couple years but will be making more this summer. Everybodies stock is limitied in s30v, so please don't take this as a knock against Knifemaker.ca. As it is, I had to order from a Canadian supplier because no one in the states had s30v in the sizes I needed.
 
My favorite steel is RWL-34 but it is pricey. Lately I made some stainless kitchen knives out of AEB-L, this steel is really cheap and the performance is really good. It is not brittle, holds a good edge and easy to sand and polish. :thumbup::thumbup:
Bought from here. (94$ = 0.125" X 13.3" X 39.3" )
Emre
 
A couple more notes:

The biggest problem with D2 is the (microscopically) huge carbides. According to Roman Landis, CPM D2 moves from the largest of his five carbide size categories to the middle one. This could make it much easier to get a really good edge.

AEBL is the same steel as the Sandvik 13C26 I mentioned earlier. Same formula, different makers that is.

Crucible has recently come out with S35V, which is supposed to be an improved S30V.
 
i have no problem with cpm154 at rc 62-63 in the kitchen and it holds an edge great and seemd to hold up really well at the nice thin edges i grind

im not sure that i woudl even try to harden std. 154cm over 60rc
 
Dan Pierson said:
A couple more notes:

The biggest problem with D2 is the (microscopically) huge carbides. According to Roman Landis, CPM D2 moves from the largest of his five carbide size categories to the middle one. This could make it much easier to get a really good edge.

AEBL is the same steel as the Sandvik 13C26 I mentioned earlier. Same formula, different makers that is.

Crucible has recently come out with S35V, which is supposed to be an improved S30V.
Click to expand...

Found the thread:
Recommendation? Stainless choices
Emre
 
Alpha Knife Supply has also started to stock AEB-L. I recently ordered some to try it .

galadduin said:
My favorite steel is RWL-34 but it is pricey. Lately I made some stainless kitchen knives out of AEB-L, this steel is really cheap and the performance is really good. It is not brittle, holds a good edge and easy to sand and polish. :thumbup::thumbup:
Bought from here. (94$ = 0.125" X 13.3" X 39.3" )
Emre
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for all of the suggestions guys! And thanks for the link to the other thread, Emre; I'll go read it right now.

I recall Niagara Specialty Metals (?) now has something to do with CPM steels if I'm not mistaken, I'll go to their site and poke around as well.

Thanks again, guys!
 
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