what are some good steel's

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rotation5

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Apr 9, 2009
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hello, my name is josh and im new to knife making. i havent got any tools yet but plan to get some soon, but first i need to sort out a few things. My main one right now is what are some good steels for small and medium utility/camp knives and maybe tactical ones too. im lookign at crucible website and under knife steels there's. 440C, 154 CM, CPM S30V, CPM S90V,CPM 3V CPM 10V, A2, D2, Rex M2.... the one i like most from just reading is the cpm 3v but im not expert. so basically my question is what are some good steel for my purpose. also do most steel's heat treat the same or do i have to do each differently?? thanks.
 
Welcome to the addiction! Almost every one heat treats differently. Best newbie steel out there is 1084. It can be purchased right on this forum under knifemakers supplies.
It works easy, it heat treats easy and will forgive you and let you re-heatreat again as many times as you like, if you mess it up. 3v is a bear to work or so I'm told. If stainless is you thing go for 440c, ATS 34, 154cm, CPM154CM, and S30v. but I wouldnt do that until you make a few regular practice knives out of junk steel to get the hang of it.

Jason
 
No, most steels do not heat treat the same at all and the ones you named off won't be possible for you to HT yourself without the right equipment. If you plan on doing the HT yourself get some 1080. Admiral steel is one supplier. Since you're new to this, I suggest you read the sticky at the top called "Newbies, good info here." as well as anything else you can find. To save you some you some searching, here are a few awesome links that have taught me a lot but nothing compares to wealth of knowledge I have recieved here. Welcome to BF.

http://gbrannon.bizhat.com/
http://www.knivesby.com/knifemaking.html
http://www.engnath.com/public/manframe.htm
 
thaanks. il look and see if i can get some 1080, the commment before u said 1084 is best is that true?? also what would i need to heat treat metals like ats-34 and cpm 3v ect.. from my research i've learnt to heat treat u need to first anneal the metal then heat it up till its non magnetic then quench the edge until the flames go out then dunk the rest then temper at 400 for 2 hours twice. would this work for 1080 or 1084. also would a metal file work for a blade what kind of metal are they... sorry for all the question but im really wanting to learn. last thing where is the sticky at the top i dont asee it . thanks alot
 
rotation5 said:
thaanks. il look and see if i can get some 1080, the commment before u said 1084 is best is that true?? also what would i need to heat treat metals like ats-34 and cpm 3v ect.. from my research i've learnt to heat treat u need to first anneal the metal then heat it up till its non magnetic then quench the edge until the flames go out then dunk the rest then temper at 400 for 2 hours twice. would this work for 1080 or 1084. also would a metal file work for a blade what kind of metal are they... sorry for all the question but im really wanting to learn. last thing where is the sticky at the top i dont asee it . thanks alot
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1080 and 1084 are basically the same. The last 2 numbers refer to the content of carbon in the steel. They are both simple carbon steels therefor easy to HT at home. For the stainless steels you mentioned, there's much more to it than heating to non magnetic and quenching in oil. The kind of equipment needed is a digitally controlled HT kiln, a medium to quench in which for the stainlesses would likely be air or plates, and to further the effectivness of the HT you'd need a way to cryogenically treat the blades after ward which involves liquid nitrogen. I am also just a newbie (4 knives completed since december) but, I've been doing my research. The way you mentioned you know how to HT would infact work for 1080-1084. Although I'd temper at 400 for 1 hour, twice, immediately after quench to reduce stresses caused. It's ok to take the time to wipe/sand all the oil residue off.
Yes, a metal file and sandpaper will make a blade if you have the will and patience. You'll need a drill also to drill pin holes in the handle. I use nails for pins because I'm cheap. It is great that you want to learn. You came to the right place. Many guys here willing to help us newbies... Good luck, Josh.
 
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ok thanks alot. one more thing im guessing that 1080 is carbon steel and can rust?? srry im just pretty clueless in the subject. thanks again
 
rotation5 said:
ok thanks alot. one more thing im guessing that 1080 is carbon steel and can rust?? srry im just pretty clueless in the subject. thanks again
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Yes, it will rust if you don't keep it clean. Applying beeswax or something similar will help but, it should be common practice to wipe off your carbon blade after you get it messy.
 
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All of them can rust, but 1080 is indeed a plain carbon steel that will rust easily. Actually I've got a 1084 knife sitting next to the PC that I ground a week ago and it has some light rust on it, probably from the slack bucket or just fingering it and not cleaning it off. Well, it's not heat treated either. The 3V you mentioned will also rust, as will many air hardening tool steels.

If you would like to use stainless, I suggest starting with 440C. It will make a fine knife, has great corrosion resistance, it's fairly inexpensive and finishes up nicely. Don't be afraid of complicated alloys, just send them out for heat treating until you're properly set up. You'll spend enough money to heat treat several knives just gathering basic heat treating materials.
 
ok thanks. i might do that if i find a place close to me that heat treats. also one question are there any stainless steel's that casn be heat treated simply by de magnetizing and quenching or is that only for carbon steel
 
There are none, even the most simple carbon steels actually deserve a slightly more precise heat treatment, but in the case of some, you'll get very near all of the performance out of them with that method. You will not do anything good to stainless or other high alloy steels with that method. There's a guy on this forum with the username "Rob!" who is a Canadian heat treater.
 
Check locally for machine shops or tool-and-die shops, they might be able/willing to HT a couple blades for you. It's worth a shot if you don't want to ship all over heck and back.
 
DustinHall said:
Yes, it will rust if you don't keep it clean. Applying beeswax or something similar will help but, it should be common practice to wipe off your carbon blade after you get it messy.
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On my simple carbon steels I use a mustard patina. I've never had issues with rust on my blades that have a mustard patina. To apply a mustard patina, you simply use your fingertip or a Q-tip to apply random dots of mustard (plain old yellow prepared mustard) on the finished blade. After an hour or two, you clean the mustard off and reapply new mustard. You keep reapplying the mustard over and over until you get a really nice patina appearance on the blade. This creates good oxidations, as opposed to bad oxidation (rust), that tends to inhibit the blade from rusting in the future. I take all my blades to at least a 1200 grit hand sanded finish before applying the mustard, as the patina will magnify and show any light scratches that were left after hand sanding.

I love the look of it. See the attached photo. This is a 1080 blade in an EDC pattern.
 

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Yeah, I too like the mustard patina, Scott. If you apply the mustard to your blade with a sponge it makes a real cool effect almost like damascus. That knife in your pic looks nice too.
 
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One patina I found out is steak juices. I left mine in the juice for 5 minutes, and it turned blue, pink, and dark gray. I thought it was rust at first, so I cleaned it all off, but I wish it was still there.
 
go mike said:
One patina I found out is steak juices. I left mine in the juice for 5 minutes, and it turned blue, pink, and dark gray. I thought it was rust at first, so I cleaned it all off, but I wish it was still there.
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Oh yeah, cutting up a bloody steak or two with a carbon blade puts a nice patina on it!
 
welcome to the forum . Listen to these guys and try easy stuff first then explore the unknown. I am not heat treating i dont have the proper stuff for stainless and ill wait till i can afford a few more fancy things. kellyw
 
Hey Rotation 5 welcome!
If you want to know about 1080-1084, read Kevin Cashen's thread about Eutechtoid steel pinned at the top of Shop Talk. something between 1070 and 1084 is what I'd reccommend for a beginner, heck I consider 1084 to be my go-to steel.
If you really want to play with some superexpensive superhightech stainless, draw up a design, and have Great Lakes waterjet blank it for you, grind an edge bevel on it and send it to a knife heat treater (Paul Bos is highly recommended but I don't know if he serves Canada)
otherwise, follow the advice above and get yourself some carbon steel, it will serve you well, and it will be simple to make a good knife from.

-Page
 
As far as HT of stainless I send all of mine to Rob!, he runs a supply business called Ranger Original (knifemaker.ca), he'll be able to start you off right!
 
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