What are the best swords?

falnovice · Dec 20, 2006

I find the Katana interesting but, frankly, overrrated. And also a bit small for me. Really, it is a sword that can be used with one hand but is better used with two, right? That puts it into the hand and a half, or bastard, sword category for me. That means it definately should be larger. And when you consider historical Katanas were often shorter than modern pieces you wind up with a short saber.
Combat sword developement was effectively ended by firearms, not design excellence. Fewer swords on the battlefield and more bayonets/pikes, though really the pike/spear was always the primary weapon of the lowly soldier.
Worth noting that most of the regulation "service" swords went to the saber style.

hank_rearden · Dec 21, 2006

i think a uniform spring temper on a blade longer than 24 inches is more crucial than differential hardening/tempering.

Bors · Dec 21, 2006

I find the Katana interesting but, frankly, overrrated. And also a bit small for me. Really, it is a sword that can be used with one hand but is better used with two, right? That puts it into the hand and a half, or bastard, sword category for me. That means it definately should be larger.

Hollywood has a lot to do with the swords ratings as well as the mystique that surrounds it.

It' a bit of a hybrid in that the grip is two handed (not hand and a half) but the blade length is more along the lines of what is considered a single hand sword.
Many European bastard swords were nothing more than single handed swords with slightly longer grips.

And when you consider historical Katanas were often shorter than modern pieces you wind up with a short saber.

Many examples of long medium and short Katanas can be found throughout history including the o-dachi the really big "great katana".

Combat sword developement was effectively ended by firearms, not design excellence.

Not entirely true. Ended for battlefield use yes but swords continued in civillian use and development well into the 19th century.

Fewer swords on the battlefield and more bayonets/pikes, though really the pike/spear was always the primary weapon of the lowly soldier.

Yep !

Worth noting that most of the regulation "service" swords went to the saber style.

This is mainly the result of cavalry influence which persisted into the 20th century. West point I believe still issues "sabers" to it's cadets. Altho they have a bit of an eastern influence in the handle and a much smaller blade than true cavalry sabers. I don't know if they still teach them how to use it.

Bors

Bors · Dec 21, 2006

falnovice said:
As opposed to the sword development for Rats? Birds? Klingons?

Let me guess,

You believe we are the sole occupants of the vast universe....

Bors

FullerH · Dec 21, 2006

The Japanese sword developed in an artificial world where, among other things, firearms had been so discouraged that they were, in effect, banned by the Tokugawa Shogunate. It wasn't that the Japanese couldn't make excellent firearms, what they were making was quite equal to anything from Europe, but that the rulers decided that firearms would make their class obsolete, just as they were making the knights in Europe obsolete. Thus, the evolution of the Japanese sword continued along the lines of a sword-using society where the swordsmen ruled as opposed to the West, where the infantry and artillery and those who could bvest use them ruled.

It came as a such a shock to Americans in WWII because we had grown so far beyond the sword that we had forgotten just how deadly a sword can be at close quarters.

Merek · Dec 21, 2006

Bors said:
Let me guess,

You believe we are the sole occupants of the vast universe....

Bors

Perhaps not ALL of the blade wielders (a small percentage of the known denizens of the vast universe) are humanoids with skeletons, wrists and elbows...which may not alter the form of the weapon so much as the physics of combat style.
According to Disney, rats utilize a sword quite similar to those of humans albeit scaled down, while Klingons what use what appear to be Imperium issue Kit Rae blades.
Birds don't fight. They just crap on your car.

Bors · Dec 21, 2006

Birds don't fight. They just crap on your car.

LOL aint that the truth. Don't park your car at night under the trees in Glendale CA OMG

.......LOL

Okieforger · Dec 21, 2006

the sad thing about the end of the medieval time an japan is that all the
swords of commenes where taken away and melted down and made into
a big Buda..now that realy realy sucks

Okieforger · Dec 21, 2006

commenrs sorry

mr.trooper · Dec 21, 2006

Snickersnee said:
I specificaly stated my reason for supporting the Medieval European longsword, tactical flexibility.

Did i just see the words "Medieval European" and "tactical" in the same sentence?

Katanas cut very well once you take 10 seconds to learn HOW they cut. If you practice it, then it gets better. BUT I do agree that they are comparatively poor at chopping or stabbing attacks. Just be sure you choose the weapon that best fits your style of combat; is that realy so hard to agree on? Why all the bull shit?

Bors · Dec 22, 2006

mr.trooper said:
Did i just see the words "Medieval European" and "tactical" in the same sentence?

Katanas cut very well once you take 10 seconds to learn HOW they cut. If you practice it, then it gets better. BUT I do agree that they are comparatively poor at chopping or stabbing attacks. Just be sure you choose the weapon that best fits your style of combat; is that realy so hard to agree on? Why all the bull shit?

Most can grasp the concept of how a sword cuts fairly quickly It takes a bit longer to learn how to cut with it and even longer to develope the mental attutude to wield it.

Katanas do cut well and they are very well suited for thrusting however a thrust is a very difficult thing to preform espicialy when your opponent is trying to evade it. Thrusts tend leave you wide open and in most cases direction changes of both body and sword are limited. As for chopping axes are a better choice.

My current hobbie is viking swords and bowie knives. Quite honestly I never thought of viking swords or any other European sword for that matter with

tactical flexibility

in mind.

It must be one of those mall ninja things.

Bors

Okieforger · Dec 22, 2006

katana thrusting?? i though they where ment for cuting and silicing not
stading

Bors · Dec 22, 2006

Yes I know it's a big supprise that katanas can thrust and do it well.

The Title of this thread is "What are the best swords"?

What is the sword without the hand that wields it and what is the hand without the heart. Steel and forge does not make the best sword for that one must look within.

Bors

falnovice · Dec 23, 2006

Generally agreeing with Bors on this one, often mentioned in firearm circles.
The gun/sword is only the tool, the hands using it make more of a difference than anything else. Thats when we get into the "Well, if an expert in A were to fight an expert in B who would win if they were the same size, strength and so forth?"
Best is really a very difficult question with many different and personal answers.

Okieforger · Dec 23, 2006

I agree wiht Bors and Falnovice. its the person behind the swords but i got
a queston. Katana vs ninja style aka stright bladed katana?

Okieforger · Dec 28, 2006

hey I just got a samurai sword for christmas and i loveing it!

I love the feel of it and cuts like a dream. just had to say it

I want to get a late medival broad sword (the realy pointy kind)

Bors · Dec 29, 2006

Okieforger said:
hey I just got a samurai sword for christmas and i loveing it!
I love the feel of it and cuts like a dream. just had to say it
I want to get a late medival broad sword (the realy pointy kind)

Congrats!!!

Pics please

Bors

Triton · Jan 2, 2007

Bors said:
Answers to this are arguable but my current belief is the Nihonto (Katana) is probably the pinical of sword development for the humam race. No other sword in history possess the level of development or understanding these do.

Having said this the overall picture is made up of many pieces the sword being but one.

Bors

<scratching head> Okay I'm going to ask the question once more just because. What does "pinnacle of sword development for the human race" mean exactly? Why is the katana the "pinnacle" as opposed to the rapier or the arming sword or the katzbalger?

Rat Finkenstein · Jan 2, 2007

Okieforger said:
hey I just got a samurai sword for christmas and i loveing it!
I love the feel of it and cuts like a dream. just had to say it
I want to get a late medival broad sword (the realy pointy kind)

I would not use a "sword" that someone might gift to a semi-literate 15 year old child. This video demonstrates why:

http://www.kroc.com/kroc_fm/people/morning_show/video/katanaslip.mpg

Bors · Jan 2, 2007

Triton said:
<scratching head> Okay I'm going to ask the question once more just because. What does "pinnacle of sword development for the human race" mean exactly? Why is the katana the "pinnacle" as opposed to the rapier or the arming sword or the katzbalger?

What does "pinnacle of sword development for the human race" mean exactly?

Well first lets define Human race for the context of my post. Human race is inclusive of all races inhabiting the planet earth.
In using the term sword development, I am including the forging technical skill, usage technical skill and spiritual development.

Overall, I believe the Katana to require a higher degree of skill to forge and finish than say the katzbalger, arming sword or rapier. As far as the usage technical skill level and spiritual development aspect that falls into the swordsmans arena and I also feel here that the Japanese had somewhat of a more formal approach.

So does this mean that European swords are chopped liver no it just means that in my opinion the Japanese sword process is more refined.

Bors