What are the closest competitors to the Sebenza when it comes to solid lock up?

Poez said:
In what way more reliable? AXIS is certainly more reliable for not giving you a blade play and not closing on your fingers while your are fooling around...
And frame/liner locks are so difficult to get right - check on latest threads about Stryder and HEST forlder...
Axis - they get it right every time. Isn't that a sign of good engineering?
And I do not see how replacing broken omega spring more difficult than sending back a folder for having your bladeplay or faulty lock fixed. And you can still use a knife with one spring while wayting - isn't it nice? ;)

But that is just my personal opinion. I have not had an omega spring breaking on me yet. ;)
You are welcome to share yours.
And yes, I have a few knives with frame lock! :D
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Simple things like less moving parts make a frame/liner lock or anything for that matter more reliable. Dropping names like strider and hest doesn't really drive the point home, they kinda got a rep for bad lock-up and that's nothing new. The axis lock is not so great IMO and I even owned one with a lock issue, factory confirmed and replaced. And sense when did BM start sending out replacement parts? I thought they were pretty strict about there warranty?
 
Poez said:
Well, then as I said, it is difficult to find something on par. I do not know how exactly it is called in English, but Sebensa does have very high precision spacer on pivot, which makes pivot screw adjustment redundant. I guess some other folders are likely to have similar system, but that would be most likely high end knives only. And certainly quite expensive knives because of the high precision required.
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Poez, that part is correctly called a bushing. Some people unfortunately use the term bushing to refer to a washer.

Other knives also use a bushing. Strangely enough, the Umnumzaan does not.
 
kawr said:
The axis lock is a more complex mechanism with more moving parts. Therefore less reliable than a framelock. The rest is self explanatory.
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There are a lot of factors that have to be right in order to make a good frame/liner lock. Read Bob Terzuolas book, I heard he knows a thing or 2 about frame locks and liner locks. They aren't that simple.
 
My mini Griptilian with axis lock is extremely solid with no blade play. This is the only knife I've carried for probably 3-4 months now, and I play with it by flicking it open hard all the time. I've definitely flicked it open 1000+ times with no issues of the pivot loosening or blade play developing. It required no adjusting out of the box. The blade was not dead center, but it's close enough considering how great the opening/closing action of the blade is. I don't want to mess up the action to perfectly center the blade. I love the blade detent also; there's no chance of it ever coming open when I don't want it to.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Poez, that part is correctly called a bushing. Some people unfortunately use the term bushing to refer to a washer.

Other knives also use a bushing. Strangely enough, the Umnumzaan does not.
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Thanks Esav. I have double-checked with dictionary - you are right. I indeed meant that precision milled bushing Sebensa has.
Did not know about Umnumzaan. Could it be some cost saving? Or production bottleneck - just lack of capacity for that particular operation?

As for the AXIS reliability: I just wish to add that more parts does not always mean less reliability. LAWKS is one example. Another one is when additional parts are added or act as back up thus increasing the reliability, not decreasing. For example AXIS has got essentially 3 parts instead of one linerlock/framelock has. Out of this three parts two are identical - the omega springs. Though omega spring occasionally breaks, the lock is still functional with just one left. And chances of two spring breaking at the same time are indeed very-very slim. And I do not talks about the third part of course - do not really see the bar breaking.
So the best framelocks are as reliable, but they do not have other advantages - like being ambidextrous and so on... ;)
 
My 2c worth is that framelocks put lateral pressure on the blade and this transfers through the bushing/washer. This means that unless you get the tension and set up just right, you will spend more time adjusting the pivot. This lateral pressure will, over the course of time, increase the blade play and drive the blade off centre.
The other issue with thinner framelocks is if you flick the blade out really hard, the lock sets right into the opposite corner and locks the blade right up. Freeing it from this position requires forcing some slack into the lock up which can also affect blade play.

PS You would be hard pushed to beat one of Farids folders for solid lockup.
 
After watching the Sebenza manufacturing video I've no doubt I could take two sebenzas, made one after the other and find at least 2 dozen points of variations that will show drastic differences in tolerances.

My chinese cheapie knife by Bee locks up solid. No blade blade, side to side or up and down. I've adjusted it to my liking, having touched it since. No matter if it's flicked open, or opened slowly the lock automatically adjusts to the same location. does not vary greatly and it does NOT get stuck like some Sebenzas.

My Bradley Alias 2 locks up solidly, just came back from factory.
 
I don't know if there is one quite like it, i mean it is even really solid with no blade play even without the screw screwed on to the pivot on the sebenza. The sage II i used to have was very solid though, i guess that's the next best thing I've handled.
 
A lot of people seem to be mentioning zt. I have a zt0400 that has its piviot screw always loosening up. Don't get me wrong though that knife as a whole is much more solid then some knives I have that cost a lot more.
 
Poez said:
Thanks Esav. I have double-checked with dictionary - you are right. I indeed meant that precision milled bushing Sebensa has.
Did not know about Umnumzaan. Could it be some cost saving? Or production bottleneck - just lack of capacity for that particular operation?

As for the AXIS reliability: I just wish to add that more parts does not always mean less reliability. LAWKS is one example. Another one is when additional parts are added or act as back up thus increasing the reliability, not decreasing. For example AXIS has got essentially 3 parts instead of one linerlock/framelock has. Out of this three parts two are identical - the omega springs. Though omega spring occasionally breaks, the lock is still functional with just one left. And chances of two spring breaking at the same time are indeed very-very slim. And I do not talks about the third part of course - do not really see the bar breaking.
So the best framelocks are as reliable, but they do not have other advantages - like being ambidextrous and so on... ;)
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I'm not involved with CRK's manufacturing, but if you just think about the geometry of the bushing as compared to the Umnumzaan's interface with the massive pivot, I can understand why a bushing would be considered unnecessary. The achievement of the tolerances appears to be similar: I cannot put my Unumzaan's blade back on the pivot unless it is perfectly aligned--the same thing happens when reassembling a Sebenza.
 
In my personal experience I have handled and owned plenty of frame, liner, and axis locks even slipjoints that were as rock-solid as I could ever have wanted, and after significant use too. But there is just something about the Umnumzaan that makes it feel orders of magnitude more stout than all those others. Sorry I know this thread is asking about the Sebenza but my answer is the closest competition is the 'zaan. I cannot say I have handled any Striders, Hinderer's, etc.
 
My Tilt and Strider SnG are both just as solid with no movement whatsoever. The Tilt is even smoother than the Sebenza as well.
 
The Chris Reeve Ti-Lock locks solidly with no blade play every time. There is also the additional benefit of ambidextrous one-handed opening and closing once the lock is broken in.
 
IME something about the design of the Hogue EX01 seems to make it impervious to blade play -- even with a loosened pivot.
 
nightman said:
"Axis - they get it right every time. Isn't that a sign of good engineering?"



I know I've sent two back to Benchmade for axis lock problems. I wouldn't say they get it right every time.
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they're also the only company you can buy a $100-$300 and have to sharpen it the minute you get it... but that's another story
 
Im going to say the Bradly Alias series. They're comparable to the Sebenza and I like the comparison nutnfancy makes with the two about how the Bradley is like a corvette, and Sebenza a Ferrari.
 
Well to be fair the frame lock in question is a Sebenza which is made by the inventor of the frame lock and the company that wins the quality award every year at Blade. I think they can make a frame lock that is more reliable than a Axis lock.

Socom Elite said:
There are a lot of factors that have to be right in order to make a good frame/liner lock. Read Bob Terzuolas book, I heard he knows a thing or 2 about frame locks and liner locks. They aren't that simple.
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