What are the elements of good design?

tryppyr

tryppyr

Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Messages
3,911
A sideling comment in another thread got me thinking about this, so I thought I'd ask a poll type question. What do you consider to be the most important elements that distinguish a really good design?

- Greg
 
Here is a super broad term to start it off. "FLOW". Now this is just a generalization and has no bearing on that thread/post that you are talking about, but (in my opinion) you cannot have sweeping lines in one area of a knife, handle or blade, then sharp angles and square lines dominating the rest, or the other way around. I like to see a clean sweeping line from butt to tip, with slightly more than half (or straight up half) of the blade below the centerline of the handle from spine to tip. Handle length and size compared to the blade is important too.
130.jpg


Then there is the stereotypical idea of a knife, there is a reason why a buck 110 looks the way it does, or a marble's, or a Randall. And these patterns have not changed in years. Most people take this into consideration when they decide what is dead sexy or not. Others can get an idea outside the box and it does not in any way fit into any of the things I mentioned, but they think it's awesome. Only a face a mother could love? If it cuts and is not dangerous to use then awesome.
 
That's a complicated question... but to put it simply, it's how well the design represents or expresses the concept.

The visual aspects of the design are just part of it. I think good knife design also incorporates function in most cases, but doesn't always have to depending on how important function is to the individual knife concept. Design in terms of function can play a major or minor role.

Execution and craftsmanship are also important in making any design convincing, and do have an effect on how folks react to the design,... or how seriously they take it.
 
In a thread from a couple of months ago I remember somebody saying something like "you didn't make the common mistake that many new knifemakers make of leaving too much material behind", presumably saying the resulting knife or handles wasn't too thick and clumsy.

I think the implication is that proportionality is important... but how does one know how much is enough and how much is too much?

- Greg
 
i would personally say,the maker really couldnt tell,the user would,b/c it has to fit them,such as style,comfort,grip,size,ect
 
tryppyr said:
In a thread from a couple of months ago I remember somebody saying something like "you didn't make the common mistake that many new knifemakers make of leaving too much material behind", presumably saying the resulting knife or handles wasn't too thick and clumsy.

I think the implication is that proportionality is important... but how does one know how much is enough and how much is too much?

- Greg
Click to expand...

I completely forgot about handle thickness. I think though folks leaving handles too thick or blocky is not a result of design, but skill or being afraid to remove too much and mess up a piece of wood or whatever they paid money for. Hell, it could be that they just wanted to slap something on there to grip and finish the darn thing! I spend about as much time on handles as I do the steel itself. More or less.

Proportionality in a measured type term? That I dunno. When I made my first knife I had an idea in my head, but I also looked at a bunch of other knives. Granted my idea was a generic hunter shape, and although there is no other hunter out there with my exact shape, it is similar to a lot of others.
 
In answer, I'll quote Wayne Goddard....

A knife MUST:

1. Look good

2. Feel good

3. Work good

Wayne told me that MANY years ago, and at first I thought it was just a quick answer to placate a young kid (me). But as time went by, I realized that Wayne had summed up the qualities of a knife in simple, straight forward terms, with a great deal of meaning.

My personal thoughts on each of those areas are:

Look Good: In order to attract a customer, the knife must grab their attention, that doesn't mean that it has to be something odd or different, just that all the parts must be in the right place, with correct dimensions, lines, and flow for the given knife.

Feel Good: Once a knife grabs someones attention, the very next thing they want to do is pick it up and handle it. The overall feel, balance and fit must be correct for a given knife to "feel good" in the hand.

Work Good: This is the one aspect that a customer cannot determine immediately upon purchasing a knife, but it is something that you as the maker MUST ensure through research, experimenting, and testing.
The first two areas will bring people to your knives, but it is you, as the maker, who must ensure that the knife will "work good". That is the part of the equation that that will make your customer a happy one, or will spread your reputation as a maker who makes a nice looking knife that doesn't "work" very well.

After all these years of making knives, I still find myself surprised that many makers have learned how to incorporate the first two elements, yet have paid little or no attention to the third, and what I consider the most important element.
I don't say that to belittle anyone, but rather in hopes of helping others see how important the "work good" aspect is in the knives they make. The work good aspect only comes from a maker testing and using the knives they make, taking the time to understand the relationships between heat treating and geometries, and in general, paying attention to those things that cannot be seen with the naked eye.
 
The “knife design concept” can be to break all the supposed design rules or to go against the “important design elements” and still come up with a good design,… or even great design. At that point, it becomes totally intuitive and truly progressive… but we hear the cliché quite often that you have to "learn the rules before you can break them"... not sure about that though... :)

Design is one of the hardest things to teach, especially with words. However…

“Great design” in terms of fine art or high art, must be personal, original, innovative etc… as a opposed to “stylized”. However, within the realm of stylization, there are good and not so good designs.

As soon as a set of design rules becomes widely accepted, “standardized“ or trendy, they naturally start to decline in terms of importance, or relevancy from a progressive design standpoint… like anything esle.
 
Inherent harmony and beauty in the lines (which IMHO is far more important than finishing touches like exotic materials, engravings, flashy damascus and such) and practicality, which I'll define as the capacity of the knife to do what it was meant for and, possibly, anything else a knife could be called to do.
 
gixxer said:
Proportionality in a measured type term? That I dunno.
Click to expand...

There is something called the "golden ratio", which is discussed in some detail in wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio

For those who are mathematically inclined, this might be a way to turn a good design into a perfect or 'divine' design. ;)

Seriously, though, I got the impression that there are some general aesthetic guidelines that people tend to follow/expect whether they do so consciously or not. I know I've seen designs that didn't follow the "standard" proportions and they tend to appear awkward to me... but I couldn't even say why, just that they do. For example, the first handle I put on the first knife I finished was too long (in retrospect)... especially given how thin it was. So I figured there must be a right length/width combination someone could describe.

Maybe not. Maybe it's just a situation where "you know it when you see it."

- Greg
 
Stacy posted a great article on knife design and I cannot find it now, links appreciated.

"flow" or "look right" is really true and I find that looking at thousands of photos of good knives has refined my "eye" where I can at least recognize, if not draw or make a nice knife.

Raymond Richard has a trick of hanging a knife in the window to just look at the silhouette outline of a knife. Handle to blade spine especially is shown up with this.
 
Flow or symmetry between what I call the three major parts of a fixed blade or both major parts of a folder. If the flow between the ricasso/guard and handle are off then the whole knife is off IMO as is the blade and ricasso/guard.
 
Design is a very broad term. With a due respect Tai Goo and mainly for this discussion purpose I will single you out :D;):thumbup:

Tai Goo uses design in very different ways than say someone like myself.

I use my designs or "patterns as I think of them" as repeatable in costruction method, desirable in appearance but must hold satisfaction from use and that will potentially cause the "pattern" to go into "Re Design" if it leaves something to be desired.

Tai Goo uses design in what I think of as usable art. Expression of creation using elements in nature is a powerful thing and he does it WELL. He brings a different kind of "DESIGN" to his knives than someone like myself.

Not that its a bad thing its just what I like about art in general. We all have room to fit on board :) And can still learn from each other and pass on what we do differently to someone else :)

My advice would be to find what you WANT from a design and let that start you in the right direction.
 
there is two parts the handle and the blade.
the blade must be shaped and ground according to how it is going to be used

the handle must be comfortable, and easy to grip again somewhat contingent on how its intended to be used.

these two parts however must complement each other to make a knife that is functional, and looks good
 
Knife "concept" often gets confused with design in these types of discussions... In terms of design, there is no correct or incorrect knife concept, method or formula. However, the concept generally dictates and supersedes the individual design.

Things like the golden ratio, design “formulas” etc., don't always work, but can be helpful as part of the learning process.

What looks right to us is usually a matter of psychological and sociological conditioning through repetition... Great design breaks through those types of artificial barriers.

Most design courses teach the design elements more as a pallet or vocabulary to work from, rather than formulas for good design.

Design elements and principals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_elements_and_principles
 
I usually like to go with historical, time proven patterns and then tack on a bit of personal flair. I think history is great for telling us what styles work and what styles don't. I think the key is balance. Everything needs to be balanced out... weight, length, handle size, colors, how it works, how it feels, how it looks, all that.
 
Last edited:
maybe just me.. but i think function is number 1... .. simply take your knife and use it for what its to be used for... and repeat it alot..

eg...i had a camp knife that i put a sorta sweeping guard on... didn't take long under use for my knuckles to tell me it wasn't a good idea..

or how adding distal taper makes cutting nicer...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top