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What are the ideal features and dimensions for a tactical tomahawk?
- Thread starter jwill05
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- Jan 29, 2014
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Feature, singular. It has to look bad ass. None of the rest matters.
I don't think many of us on this particular forum use, own, or plan to own tactical tomahawks.
That said I will do my best to provide useful feedback from the perspective of an axe user and with the little I know about these tools.
- I would leave more material behind the heal of the axe where the beard is for strength and longevity.
- keep the beard and straight bit in the design, I think it will allow the axe to fullfil knife tasks more readily.
- Widen the handle a bit it should be wider bit to poll or in this case bit to spike to help with indexing in use.
- Ensure that the spike will fit into the most common locks, from what I understand an important use of the spike tool is prying pad locks.
- Consider a convex grind, it won't be a chopper or a splitter but it should help performance non the less.
- A sharp Squared spine on the top of the head could be useful.
- For Pete's sake don't make it a P-Cord wrapped handle or put a bottle opener on it
That's all I've got.
That said I will do my best to provide useful feedback from the perspective of an axe user and with the little I know about these tools.
- I would leave more material behind the heal of the axe where the beard is for strength and longevity.
- keep the beard and straight bit in the design, I think it will allow the axe to fullfil knife tasks more readily.
- Widen the handle a bit it should be wider bit to poll or in this case bit to spike to help with indexing in use.
- Ensure that the spike will fit into the most common locks, from what I understand an important use of the spike tool is prying pad locks.
- Consider a convex grind, it won't be a chopper or a splitter but it should help performance non the less.
- A sharp Squared spine on the top of the head could be useful.
- For Pete's sake don't make it a P-Cord wrapped handle or put a bottle opener on it
That's all I've got.
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2014
- Messages
- 1,638
I know. I'm sorry. Too much time on my hands today. The trouble is that by definition a tomahawk is a compromise tool so I don't believe there can be an ideal. In the hands of a competent user, I would expect them to be devastating (in virtually any configuration), but at the same time, are hawks known as go-to fighting tools today? As a wrecking tool there are simply better dedicated tools out there. The very first error, with regard to wrecking, is cutting it from flat stock. An ideal multipurpose hawk-like object, in my view, would be forged from a common tool steel designed for prying. Trouble is, weight is going to be a concern for fighting, which brings us back to compromise. You have to compromise too much in either direction in order to get "ideal", but I would certainly lean toward wrecking because I doubt it'll see much fighting use, and the already saturated market is heavy on fighting hawks. And maybe I'm wrong, that would be normal, but my point was, I really think they sell because they are cool looking and even though it probably sounded like I was making fun, I personally think it's a perfectly legitimate reason to buy something. If that turns out to be true well then, I was giving you perfectly sound business advice. A business has to make money to survive and you have to sell the things people want in order to make money. And I agree with another statement, whatever you do, no bottle opener.
BTW, you might say something like, I have to cut it from stock because it would cost a small fortune to get set up for drop forging. It would cost a small fortune to hire a drop forging outfit to do the work for you, even if it was China I'd guess. If you aren't already a martial artist who knows what features are needed in a fighting hawk, go find one, have him endorse your tool and whatever you do, make it bad ass looking! See. We've come full circle.
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Dismissing all the Ninja crap to do with tomahaks, I suggest a more pronounced hook shape to the spike.
Observe a typical european pattern fireaxe. Its obvious.
If its used as a breaching / demolition tool, hooked shape allows better mechanical advantage and clearances to sink its hook into a wooden surface & pry out chunks.
Observe a typical european pattern fireaxe. Its obvious.
If its used as a breaching / demolition tool, hooked shape allows better mechanical advantage and clearances to sink its hook into a wooden surface & pry out chunks.
FWIW,
I think a curved bit. Not a big arc, but subtle. If you should bind it into something when striking, the arc allows a little cutting when prying it out.
Also, sharpened behind the beard, for the above reason. It gives it a "can opener" effect.
On the spike, my McCoun is eight sided on the spike. Not octagonal, but 8 surfaces. Think about a good old pick and how the sides and continuous increasing diameter work when it strikes into rock. Little to no binding
My CRKT RMJ is eight sided too, just different angles. I would think a curve with a constant taper would hang up less, ala no angled corners to catch, and with the right geometry could provide an underneath sharpened edge for more of the can opener effect.
I know, armchair ninja... but seriously, think about how she'll bite, stick, and open up a hole when prying it out.
.02
I think a curved bit. Not a big arc, but subtle. If you should bind it into something when striking, the arc allows a little cutting when prying it out.
Also, sharpened behind the beard, for the above reason. It gives it a "can opener" effect.
On the spike, my McCoun is eight sided on the spike. Not octagonal, but 8 surfaces. Think about a good old pick and how the sides and continuous increasing diameter work when it strikes into rock. Little to no binding
My CRKT RMJ is eight sided too, just different angles. I would think a curve with a constant taper would hang up less, ala no angled corners to catch, and with the right geometry could provide an underneath sharpened edge for more of the can opener effect.
I know, armchair ninja... but seriously, think about how she'll bite, stick, and open up a hole when prying it out.
.02
Square_peg
Gold Member
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2-1/4 lb. head. Rectangular poll. 28" haft. Eye size 3/4" x 2-3/16".
I'll be the oddball and say that when I think " tactical " tomahawks I tend to think current deployed military to use instead of a knife for hand to hand as a last resort....
To that end.... I'm talking stone cold killer and very little utility.....
something along the lines of this comes to mind.....
straighten up the portion coming up from the handle to the start of the curve....then add a dulled tanto pointed back spike about 2.5 inches long for actual breeching and you are in business.... still useable as a knife for MOST tasks, but there is no mistake that it was designed for a Seal to bury in the back of a sentry's head in the dark of some distant sandbox.
It's a modern take on an idea that has been nasty and lethal for thousands of years.....
Google " elbow adze " will give you plenty of reference material under " images " .....
To that end.... I'm talking stone cold killer and very little utility.....
something along the lines of this comes to mind.....
straighten up the portion coming up from the handle to the start of the curve....then add a dulled tanto pointed back spike about 2.5 inches long for actual breeching and you are in business.... still useable as a knife for MOST tasks, but there is no mistake that it was designed for a Seal to bury in the back of a sentry's head in the dark of some distant sandbox.
It's a modern take on an idea that has been nasty and lethal for thousands of years.....
Google " elbow adze " will give you plenty of reference material under " images " .....
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I think the lanyard hole at the bottom should double as a hex wrench or some kinda tool
Good idea. The Multi Feature concept always has merit.
Maybe fit a tweezer / roachclip from a SwissArmy knife into its handle also.
The issue with adding that is it has to be sized properly to work. Then there is the issue where most likely it would be the incorrect size if you did need it a socket.
For a breaching hawk the RMJ Shrike has it right. James Helm has a new proto type he's working on "The Brave" I believe. At work we issued out (and trained)a number of them at work for emergency breaches. Ive busted numerous locks, a fire door (the spike is the key), wire reinforced safety glass, car window etc To be successful you have to handle one and try it on the various challenges to see what actually works and what does not.
A lanyard is a must, sharpened beard, spike that will not only fit into a lock-it has to fit in when theres chain attached-that's where a lot of designs fail, the correct geometry on the main cutting edge. An insulated handles a good feature-It came in handy for me once as well. A sharpened top edge is just a hazard ton the user.
The spike in the above design will not work if you intend on it to take out padlocks.
I was USMC back over thirty years ago but talking with modern day warfighters and the additional gear they carry to include heavy armor a hawk designed purely for hand to hand will be dismissed by most troops in exchange for carrying extra mags etc
A lanyard is a must, sharpened beard, spike that will not only fit into a lock-it has to fit in when theres chain attached-that's where a lot of designs fail, the correct geometry on the main cutting edge. An insulated handles a good feature-It came in handy for me once as well. A sharpened top edge is just a hazard ton the user.
The spike in the above design will not work if you intend on it to take out padlocks.
I was USMC back over thirty years ago but talking with modern day warfighters and the additional gear they carry to include heavy armor a hawk designed purely for hand to hand will be dismissed by most troops in exchange for carrying extra mags etc
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I don't know much about tomahawks other than what I see on BF. These seem like composite handle materials are the norm. Paracord as well.
This might be contrary to the function/design but what about nice hardwood panels? The handle already would have cut outs for keeping weight down, 3 or so strategic holes pressed through would allow rivets of some sorts.
Might be as easy as cutting a handle longitudinally and fitting it. It would add an element that might feel like a mix of old world to the highly stylized tactical designs. Might even open up to a wider audience. This might be an old or failed idea as well.
I've never made/designed a knife or panels so maybe it would do something to the overall price to make it prohibitive. I also don't own a tomawak but find I'm drawn more to the wood handled ones when I see photos of them.
They aren't axes to some people.
They are axes- just for a different environment.
Thank you sharing what you are designing.
This might be contrary to the function/design but what about nice hardwood panels? The handle already would have cut outs for keeping weight down, 3 or so strategic holes pressed through would allow rivets of some sorts.
Might be as easy as cutting a handle longitudinally and fitting it. It would add an element that might feel like a mix of old world to the highly stylized tactical designs. Might even open up to a wider audience. This might be an old or failed idea as well.
I've never made/designed a knife or panels so maybe it would do something to the overall price to make it prohibitive. I also don't own a tomawak but find I'm drawn more to the wood handled ones when I see photos of them.
They aren't axes to some people.
They are axes- just for a different environment.
Thank you sharing what you are designing.