What are the Pros and Cons of Titanium as a Knife Blade?

Mecha said:
All that said above, the pros and cons when used as a knife:

Pros:
-no rust
-tough and resilient
-can be very thin
-easy to maintain, very low maintenance
-lightweight
-resistant to crack propagation
-will not break while batoning or subjected to shock stress


Cons:
-unlikely to compare to the high blade performance of advanced wear-resistant hard steels
-lower hardness and density means can't chop a cinderblock without damage to the thinnest part of the edge
-low density/weight means heavy chopping/cutting requires speed (can be dangerous)
-more likely(?) to get dull when cutting highly abrasive materials like sandbags


Simply put, titanium, in the right alloy and with the right heat treatment, does function well as a knife and is totally worthwhile to use, and can even become the favorite knife of many users. It's extraordinary as a long blade for several reasons.

Just like amongst the various steels, which are all different, titanium alloy is yet another way to get the job done, with its own quirks, nuances and feel. It by no means displaces steel, but I say it's well worthy of taking a seat with them at the round table of cutlery.
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You forgot 'non-magnetic' as a pro. But I guess in some circumstances a titanium blade being non-magnetic could be a con.
 
000Robert said:
Texting gets old for me quick as well. But I use a PC mostly online and use my phone for a phone. Titanium being a toxic metal, it is ok to use for cutting food?
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000Robert said:
You forgot 'non-magnetic' as a pro. But I guess in some circumstances a titanium blade being non-magnetic could be a con.
Click to expand...

Yes, being non-magnetic doesn't seem to be very useful in the low-speed high-drag real world, but at least the grinder dust doesn't stick to every magnetized piece of iron in the shop. I like that part.

Titanium isn't a toxic metal, it's one of the most non-toxic, hypo-allergenic metals in the world.
 
When we're talking about a "titanium knife," there's a pretty narrow range of what exists.

First of all are the tungsten carbide edged ti knives. These are almost always 6al4v, and should have a tungsten carbide application to one side of the blade's edge. The way it works is, with use, the titanium galls away from the thin, very hard layer of tungsten carbide, exposing the TC as the edge's apex. The perfect alloy for this use is pretty much 6al4v, as it does wear away from the TC but supports it and the knife body nicely. There are a decent number of these types of knives around, made on and off by various people. I like these types a lot and use one all the time in the shop for hard use. Lots of abuse to a thin blade, I sharpen it whenever it needs it. They work great on fibrous materials, rope, meat, leather, that sort of thing. Great hunting and fishing knife use.

Then there are the ubiquitous ti diving knives that are all over the place, in that standard form you see, usually with a pry tip. The vast majority (maybe even all) of these are low quality knives, and in my opinion are a gimmick. They're virtually all the same knife, made overseas by the same manufacturer, despite that they may say "made in USA" or whatever. They're lying, I looked into it some years back. I found that they're extremely overheated in heat treatment, have huge grain, and take a poor edge. That said, some people like these "beta ti" diving knives, and that's fine.

Next are the Misson Knives. These were pretty much the first real titanium knives, made of heat-treated, hardenable titanium alloy. I think these were already being made when I was born. They seem to have a fine reputation as nicely-functioning knives, based mainly on the older ones. I checked them out at Blade Show and they did seem good, metallurgically-speaking. Obviously hardened a lot. However, I thought they were too thick, and didn't understand what they were doing with the bevel, and handles. That's just my opinion on design, though. I like knives to be thin, especially titanium ones, though they're harder to make compared to thicker ones.

Last are Mecha blades. In 2013 I started working non-stop to make real-ass titanium alloy swords, in order to make swords that handle and function the way I want them to, among other reasons. This process was much more complicated than I expected, but the results greatly exceeded my dreams. The selected alloys, some shaping methods, and carefully-developed heat treatment techniques are unique, and were skewed toward making long thin blades that are subjected to rude impacts and wild hard cuts. Over the years I've had to prove that these blades actually work, which they do...splendidly. They're different and odd, but work really well. However, in the blade world a lot of people want knives, and my heat treatment made a blade that worked as a knife, too, not just a sword or machete.

I don't particularly like making knives and find them frustrating, and thankfully, BladeMan BladeMan eventually stepped up to the challenge. I did the heat treatment for his knife blanks, each one, individually. Other than that, he does every bit of the work to make his knives, which are so much better than mine it's unreal. He's been in the knife world for two decades or more, and knows a lot about them, and he just simply likes titanium alloy as heat-treated by me the best. He's not putting in that much extremely detailed work into a knife that doesn't function well. My big brother also made some really nice hunting knives from ti using my HT and processing techniques, and got stellar feedback from hunters and fishermen, including a professional hunting guide who only uses his knife now. There are several others who have made blades with the "Mecha" heat treatment, with good results. Eventually I'll be writing a book detailing everything about the processes, the complete why and how. Hopefully before I get hit by a bus or whatever and most of the knowledge is lost.

Are there any titanium knife categories I'm missing?
 
Mecha said:
Titanium isn't a toxic metal, it's one of the most non-toxic, hypo-allergenic metals in the world.
Click to expand...

I've heard people say that breathing the dust from grinding titanium was toxic. But I don't like to breathe any dust. I even wear a dust mask when sharpening with my Wicked Edge 130.
 
Mecha said:
When we're talking about a "titanium knife," there's a pretty narrow range of what exists.

First of all are the tungsten carbide edged ti knives. These are almost always 6al4v, and should have a tungsten carbide application to one side of the blade's edge. The way it works is, with use, the titanium galls away from the thin, very hard layer of tungsten carbide, exposing the TC as the edge's apex. The perfect alloy for this use is pretty much 6al4v, as it does wear away from the TC but supports it and the knife body nicely. There are a decent number of these types of knives around, made on and off by various people. I like these types a lot and use one all the time in the shop for hard use. Lots of abuse to a thin blade, I sharpen it whenever it needs it. They work great on fibrous materials, rope, meat, leather, that sort of thing. Great hunting and fishing knife use.

Then there are the ubiquitous ti diving knives that are all over the place, in that standard form you see, usually with a pry tip. The vast majority (maybe even all) of these are low quality knives, and in my opinion are a gimmick. They're virtually all the same knife, made overseas by the same manufacturer, despite that they may say "made in USA" or whatever. They're lying, I looked into it some years back. I found that they're extremely overheated in heat treatment, have huge grain, and take a poor edge. That said, some people like these "beta ti" diving knives, and that's fine.

Next are the Misson Knives. These were pretty much the first real titanium knives, made of heat-treated, hardenable titanium alloy. I think these were already being made when I was born. They seem to have a fine reputation as nicely-functioning knives, based mainly on the older ones. I checked them out at Blade Show and they did seem good, metallurgically-speaking. Obviously hardened a lot. However, I thought they were too thick, and didn't understand what they were doing with the bevel, and handles. That's just my opinion on design, though. I like knives to be thin, especially titanium ones, though they're harder to make compared to thicker ones.

Last are Mecha blades. In 2013 I started working non-stop to make real-ass titanium alloy swords, in order to make swords that handle and function the way I want them to, among other reasons. This process was much more complicated than I expected, but the results greatly exceeded my dreams. The selected alloys, some shaping methods, and carefully-developed heat treatment techniques are unique, and were skewed toward making long thin blades that are subjected to rude impacts and wild hard cuts. Over the years I've had to prove that these blades actually work, which they do...splendidly. They're different and odd, but work really well. However, in the blade world a lot of people want knives, and my heat treatment made a blade that worked as a knife, too, not just a sword or machete.

I don't particularly like making knives and find them frustrating, and thankfully, BladeMan BladeMan eventually stepped up to the challenge. I did the heat treatment for his knife blanks, each one, individually. Other than that, he does every bit of the work to make his knives, which are so much better than mine it's unreal. He's been in the knife world for two decades or more, and knows a lot about them, and he just simply likes titanium alloy as heat-treated by me the best. He's not putting in that much extremely detailed work into a knife that doesn't function well. My big brother also made some really nice hunting knives from ti using my HT and processing techniques, and got stellar feedback from hunters and fishermen, including a professional hunting guide who only uses his knife now. There are several others who have made blades with the "Mecha" heat treatment, with good results. Eventually I'll be writing a book detailing everything about the processes, the complete why and how. Hopefully before I get hit by a bus or whatever and most of the knowledge is lost.

Are there any titanium knife categories I'm missing?
Click to expand...

I can't wait to read your book!
 
000Robert said:
I've heard people say that breathing the dust from grinding titanium was toxic. But I don't like to breathe any dust. I even wear a dust mask when sharpening with my Wicked Edge 130.
Click to expand...
Breathing ANY dust is toxic.
 
Mecha said:
When we're talking about a "titanium knife," there's a pretty narrow range of what exists.

First of all are the tungsten carbide edged ti knives. These are almost always 6al4v, and should have a tungsten carbide application to one side of the blade's edge. The way it works is, with use, the titanium galls away from the thin, very hard layer of tungsten carbide, exposing the TC as the edge's apex. The perfect alloy for this use is pretty much 6al4v, as it does wear away from the TC but supports it and the knife body nicely. There are a decent number of these types of knives around, made on and off by various people. I like these types a lot and use one all the time in the shop for hard use. Lots of abuse to a thin blade, I sharpen it whenever it needs it. They work great on fibrous materials, rope, meat, leather, that sort of thing. Great hunting and fishing knife use.

Then there are the ubiquitous ti diving knives that are all over the place, in that standard form you see, usually with a pry tip. The vast majority (maybe even all) of these are low quality knives, and in my opinion are a gimmick. They're virtually all the same knife, made overseas by the same manufacturer, despite that they may say "made in USA" or whatever. They're lying, I looked into it some years back. I found that they're extremely overheated in heat treatment, have huge grain, and take a poor edge. That said, some people like these "beta ti" diving knives, and that's fine.

Next are the Misson Knives. These were pretty much the first real titanium knives, made of heat-treated, hardenable titanium alloy. I think these were already being made when I was born. They seem to have a fine reputation as nicely-functioning knives, based mainly on the older ones. I checked them out at Blade Show and they did seem good, metallurgically-speaking. Obviously hardened a lot. However, I thought they were too thick, and didn't understand what they were doing with the bevel, and handles. That's just my opinion on design, though. I like knives to be thin, especially titanium ones, though they're harder to make compared to thicker ones.

Last are Mecha blades. In 2013 I started working non-stop to make real-ass titanium alloy swords, in order to make swords that handle and function the way I want them to, among other reasons. This process was much more complicated than I expected, but the results greatly exceeded my dreams. The selected alloys, some shaping methods, and carefully-developed heat treatment techniques are unique, and were skewed toward making long thin blades that are subjected to rude impacts and wild hard cuts. Over the years I've had to prove that these blades actually work, which they do...splendidly. They're different and odd, but work really well. However, in the blade world a lot of people want knives, and my heat treatment made a blade that worked as a knife, too, not just a sword or machete.

I don't particularly like making knives and find them frustrating, and thankfully, BladeMan BladeMan eventually stepped up to the challenge. I did the heat treatment for his knife blanks, each one, individually. Other than that, he does every bit of the work to make his knives, which are so much better than mine it's unreal. He's been in the knife world for two decades or more, and knows a lot about them, and he just simply likes titanium alloy as heat-treated by me the best. He's not putting in that much extremely detailed work into a knife that doesn't function well. My big brother also made some really nice hunting knives from ti using my HT and processing techniques, and got stellar feedback from hunters and fishermen, including a professional hunting guide who only uses his knife now. There are several others who have made blades with the "Mecha" heat treatment, with good results. Eventually I'll be writing a book detailing everything about the processes, the complete why and how. Hopefully before I get hit by a bus or whatever and most of the knowledge is lost.

Are there any titanium knife categories I'm missing?
Click to expand...
You may have missed the proprietary CeraTitan blades by Boker. They are no longer made. See post 15 above.
The Mission knives were developed for Navy Seals and Underwater Demolition Teams. The selling point was the ability to dig out magnetic mines, clear beaches, or something like that. Hence the fat blades. Mission also made Titanium probes to locate said mines.
 
tiguy7 said:
You may have missed the proprietary CeraTitan blades by Boker. They are no longer made. See post 15 above.
The Mission knives were developed for Navy Seals and Underwater Demolition Teams. The selling point was the ability to dig out magnetic mines, clear beaches, or something like that. Hence the fat blades. Mission also made Titanium probes to locate said mines.
Click to expand...

Good info, yes I missed the CeraTitan blades, they sound interesting.

There was a guy here named Rolf Lycosa Lycosa who told me a lot of info about Mission Knives back when I first found Bladeforums. I believe he was friends with the gentleman who basically invented Mission Knives. Rolf, you out there?


000Robert said:
That's the way I look at it. But I thought that titanium dust was even more toxic than steel.
Click to expand...

When I first started using it, I looked into it as best I could and couldn't find anything that indicated it's any worse than normal grinder dust type particulates. However I have to wonder, considering it's biocompatible and doesn't degrade.
 
severedthumbs said:
In 99% of uses Titanium sucks as a blade material. And is horrible in folders with a detent.
Click to expand...


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Mecha said:
Good info, yes I missed the CeraTitan blades, they sound interesting.

There was a guy here named Rolf Lycosa Lycosa who told me a lot of info about Mission Knives back when I first found Bladeforums. I believe he was friends with the gentleman who basically invented Mission Knives. Rolf, you out there?




When I first started using it, I looked into it as best I could and couldn't find anything that indicated it's any worse than normal grinder dust type particulates. However I have to wonder, considering it's biocompatible and doesn't degrade.
Click to expand...
Google Titanium dioxide nanoparticles: a review of current toxicological data.
 
Mecha said:
Good info, yes I missed the CeraTitan blades, they sound interesting.
Click to expand...
Some years ago I read some article about landing gear on airplanes . We know that weight in airplanes is very important so the lightest possible materials for making parts are required.............the story was about ball bearing made of titanium alloy in landing gear .I've tried several times over the years to find it again but without success .

The only thing I'm sure of today is that it was a titanium alloy of 60 HRC and that research article was from Krupp , I think .
 
Natlek said:
Some years ago I read some article about landing gear on airplanes . We know that weight in airplanes is very important so the lightest possible materials for making parts are required.............the story was about ball bearing made of titanium alloy in landing gear .I've tried several times over the years to find it again but without success .

The only thing I'm sure of today is that it was a titanium alloy of 60 HRC and that research article was from Krupp , I think .
Click to expand...
NiTi Hf ball bearings are used in aircraft because they are non-corrosive, have increased load capacity, and are lighter. The alloy is 57.6% Nickel, 39.2% Titanium, and 3.2% Hafnium. Since Nickel is denser than Iron (8.8 vs 7.85), I wouldn’t think the weight saving would be that great.
 
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