what are trainer folding knives for?

You probably wouldn't have gotten as negative a reaction after the culture comment if you had your location filled in.
 
sogflash said:
no, I'm not in the UK, and I was not trolling or trying to insult anyone. it's just that impression that it seems like most people have about Americans.

we do have police and jails here, and sure we do have crime. I haven't studied the laws, but I think you can defend yourself with any legals means the situation requires.

I started this thread dead serious not being able to imagine what you needed a training folding knife for. might have been naive of me.
Click to expand...

No problems my friend, and thanks for the explanation. for some more info and good skill practice ideas head over to Prac Tac here and check out mer ops Combative Edge blog/website.

As Esav said, plus "you catch more flies with honey"

Take care and welcome.
 
sogflash said:
we do have police and jails here, and sure we do have crime. I haven't studied the laws, but I think you can defend yourself with any legals means the situation requires.
Click to expand...
I guess it's not enough to study the law - you should have a look on how judges interpret them, too. In Germany you are officially allowed to stand your ground (you dont have to run) and to apply a greater force than an attacker - but it mustn't be too much. And that's where it gets interesting - it's quite easy that a judge may think you did too much...

It's also REALLY RARE that you'd be allowed to use a lethal weapon for self defense - but that's mainly due to a relatively low crime rate - it's far less likely that someone's threatening your life/health than many other places, so it's far less likely that you could legally use a knife for SD.
 
And given it's more likely that we will carry a folder than a fixed blade, its a good idea to practice drawing and opening under stress (e.g. your training partner is slapping your headguard) SAFELY.

For folders, its preferable to use hardened steel (rather than aluminium) because of the locking mechanism.

Ultimately, its another skill that most of us hope we never need, and never have to use. But far better than not being prepared or living in a fantasy land where we think we could deploy a folder under pressure.
 
Daniel, I notice that you are located in Singapore. I'll be moving there for a 2 year period. I wonder how acceptable/legal it is to EDC a knife (locked? length?) there?
 
Trainer folders are made for just that - training. They are built to the same specs and weight as the live blades, only they are not sharp so you don't cut yer weiner off.

This topic really makes me laugh. I have been using "trainers" for a looooooong time. When I was a boy, we made wooden trainers. We beat the crap out of each other with them. They would be just about as useful as any modern made folder trainer. Hell, why waste the money? Why not just jab at each other with a stick? Why not just pick a stick with the same length as your carry blade and you're set!

Let me guess... because the stick doesn't fold? Because a stick isn't the same exact size and weight as the knife you carry? Because the stick is not made of first rate materials? Sticks don't have Spyderco or Benchmade labels? WTF?!

Folks, I don't post on here often. I have been a member for a long time. Bottom line is that training with trainers attempts to create muscle memory. Nothing more, nothing less. If you keep flicking out your blade, or your trainer, repeatedly, you will eventually get to where it is automatic. You will be able to get your blade out FAST, and that is the most important aspect.

I am speaking from experience when I say this - IT DOES NOT REALLY MATTER WHAT YOU TRAIN WITH! Seriously - under duress, try getting that folder out and defending yourself. I have been there and done that. I work in the most crime ridden part of my city (Houston, TX) and I have had to defend myself quite a few times. Most of them were packing screwdrivers or baseball bats.

I understand that somebody well versed in escrima or some fancy MA schtuff would have put them in their place, but... I somehow get the feeling that some of the vatos viewing this post would have got stuck with a cheap assed screwdriver... trying to be billy badass... with their "trainers".

You know what? It doesn't matter a f#ckin' thing on the streets how much your fancy knife cost, or how many cigars are in your humidor, or how fast you THINK you can get your knife out before the drug dealer shoots you, or you just can't believe that you got hit in the back of the head with a sap, and you're fading in...and out...and in...and out of consciousness... and it would not have mattered one. little. bit. how much you trained with your folding trainers.
 
Last edited:
WE use both folders and fixed blade trainers in our Krav Maga sessions. The fixed blades vary from 2" fruit-knife sized to 7" double-edged daggers while the folders are 3 or 4". The idea is to get used to the concept that in an attack, a blade is a blade, regardless of size or configuration.
 
AntDog said:
This topic really makes me laugh. I have been using "trainers" for a looooooong time. When I was a boy, we made wooden trainers. We beat the crap out of each other with them. They would be just about as useful as any modern made folder trainer.

I am speaking from experience when I say this - IT DOES NOT REALLY MATTER WHAT YOU TRAIN WITH!
Click to expand...

They still make wooden training knives. And people still make their own wooden (and rubber) folders.
But it does matter what you train with...steel coming at you feels different from wood.
And sharpened steel has a different psychological feel to it when coming at you than dull does.

This is coming "from experience" too...not that anyone on the internet will give two bleeps about annonymous people spouting off about experience.;)
 
AntDog said:
You know what? It doesn't matter a f#ckin' thing on the streets how much your fancy knife cost, or how many cigars are in your humidor, or how fast you THINK you can get your knife out before the drug dealer shoots you, or you just can't believe that you got hit in the back of the head with a sap, and you're fading in...and out...and in...and out of consciousness... and it would not have mattered one. little. bit. how much you trained with your folding trainers.
Click to expand...

Oh God, this is such a stupid strawman.
You have that pointless attitude that says training is wasted time.
Well Negative Nelly, training is about improving odds, not becoming impervious to harm.
Someone out there is always tougher, and if you get bashed in the head and die, well then yes, you won't be fighting back.
But cops carry guns and other assorted weapons and TRAIN with them for a reason...because it improves the odds.
 
Wow this thread is progressing toward relocation quickly...

Will it end up in prac-tac or w&c first?
 
unit said:
Wow this thread is progressing toward relocation quickly...

Will it end up in prac-tac or w&c first?
Click to expand...
Perhaps it can do both?
Off to Prac Tac, then with additional tomfoolery it can graduate to Whine & Cheese.:D
That is the fate of many threads which even tangentially deal with less than tool uses of knives.
 
So i guess the variables here would be time it takes for the thread be moved and at what post #. place your bets folks. :p

seriously though Id really like to see someone turn a trainer blade into a live one
 
Yes, training IS about improving odds. I understand that. No problems with that. It will do you good if you are facing "knife on knife" odds. But, what if they don't play by your rules? What if they have never studied at your dojo? LOL.

The thing I think is laughable is all these Ed Hardy's on here who have never been cut, never had to defend themselves, never had to pass through a bad part of town - taking up "trainers" and getting "prepared".

Hell, if I recall correctly, I was once of this mindset. My first post on BF was something like "what is the best knife for self defense?" I think the best reply I got was from a famous knife maker - the best knife for self defense is a 12 gauge shotgun.

Training with a knife IS great exercise, but it is wasting your time in most cases. (for defense of yourself, on a real world "mean street") The only time you would need to whip out your knife and defend yourself would be if someone pulled out a blade, or handheld weapon on you first. Correct? Ok. Well, in a lot of cases, you just brought a knife to a gunfight (sorry for the cliche). In that instance, how much did your training help you? The toe tag will say "death by gunshot wound. homicide". I doubt it would say "this man was a great family man who went to church, practiced yoga, kept a well stocked humidor, drank lots of single malt scotch, and trained with his endura trainer religiously, but he was still gunned down by some @sshole wino".

In a lot of other cases, you will be facing overwhelming odds. The average mugger will be packing any of the following fine assortment of "weapons" - screwdrivers, crowbars, hammers, machetes, 2X4s, 40 oz. bottles, baseball bats, metal pipes, pool cues, bricks, shivs, shanks, etc... You know what - I don't think they give a flying sh!t if you have a knife, or train with a trainer either. I don't even think they give a sh!t if you have a family, or if you sing in the church choir. They will still try to kill you and take the wallet out of your corpse's pocket. And, in a lot of cases, they have friends.

Look friend, not trying to be a "negative nelly". Just relating what I have seen works, and does not. I feel safest being well versed in the art of S&W. All 6 beans in the wheel, and a speedloader just in case they invited friends to the party.

If you like to HI-YAHHHH! jumping all around the dojo with your trainers, so be it. I just think it won't save your life like a handgun would. Sure, if you are Jakie Chan with a folder, then best of luck to you... and you will probably survive a street fight. There truly are people out there who deserve the "Billy Badass" nickname.

Let's just agree to disagree. Trainers are just one thing that really sticks in my craw. In my own personal experience, things that go "bang" work better.
 
AntDog said:
Yes, training IS about improving odds. I understand that. No problems with that. It will do you good if you are facing "knife on knife" odds. But, what if they don't play by your rules? What if they have never studied at your dojo? LOL.
Click to expand...
For me, it's more about facing "guy tries stabbing me and I have no knife in my hand because I'm waiting for the bus and I'm not a psycho."

People get so hung up on the dueling aspect that they forget there's FAR more to training...like the realistic parts.:)

As to the Dojo part, that's why I like having completely untrained people do the attacks as well. They do the weirdest things, because they have no preconceptions. Also, it's usually the untrained who go around attacking people too.
 
AntDog said:
In a lot of other cases, you will be facing overwhelming odds. The average mugger will be packing any of the following fine assortment of "weapons" - screwdrivers, crowbars, hammers, machetes, 2X4s, 40 oz. bottles, baseball bats, metal pipes, pool cues, bricks, shivs, shanks, etc
Click to expand...
Which is why I also practice against things such as these.
It's about going home in one piece at the end of the day for me. I don't play Bruce Lee in fantasy or real life.;)
 
Just my two cents: if there were no reason for using trainers then why are our special forces and SWAT guys wasting their time training with them (knife and gun trainers)? It would seem to me in the wisdom of some on here, they would be better off either not training at all and just training with the ole' S&W six shooter or better yet as I guess as you put it "the best knife for self defense is a 12 guage shotgun" right? well, that's not always an option... or even remotely correct for that matter. Ask any professional that deals with lethal force engagements or anyone who has done research on the topic and they'll tell you that even with a competent pistol shooter that within 20 feet, a knife is a way more lethal weapon than a gun as long as there are no obstacles between you and your attacker. that being the case, not every state or country (I'm from canada for instance) lets you run around with a gun on your hip... though I wish to god they did, so the best chance people have to arm theselves for any self defense is with a sensible sized folding knife, and the best way to ever prepare yourself is through realistic training. For the record, the best knife for self defence is whatever you are carrying, and I do practice yoga and drink single malt scotch.
 
if you want to train for a knife fight like your special forces and SWAT guys, then you might be living in the bad part of the town.
 
So basically what you're saying is that anyone who takes Karate classes or whatever lives in a bad neighborhood..?! Please tell us where you are from.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top