What are your thoughts about ball bearings vs washers?

Right on. To me ball bearings (of needle bearings) in a knife pivot are a solution to a problem I don't have.

Opinions vary, but I am satisfied with the design I currently carry. I'm not going to argue with anyone, but I won't be convinced that I need a faster pivot. If speed ever becomes a problem, I'll stick with my fixed blades;)
 
I like them. Just as much as a properly fitted washer.

My customs from Andre van Heerden and Andre Thorburn function perfectly on bearings.

My CRK, Des Horn custom run on washers and function perfectly.

If a person builds a flipper the market wants bearings. Need to meet demands.

If you build a manual opening knife on washers it better rival CRK or better it. People demand that or expect that.

One can just read the different opinions on the matter on forums to identify those few trends.

I have a Sebenza in my pocket with a IKBS front flipper. Both with zero blade play, opens smoothly without what I consider slop. Both bring a smile to my face.
 
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Not a bearing fan.....here's a rant: The minute you have bearings in a knife you also typically have some sort of plastic bearing-cage that will degrade in time and lessen the overall lifespan of the knife, or become damaged by lubricants or cleaners. Also the pressure of the blade is now concentrated onto the tips of the 8-10 balls of the bearings rather than being evenly distributed across the entire face of the washer, so both the bearings and the blade are more susceptible to impact damage, pitting, galling etc. Furthermore, there is more nooks and crannies to collect dirt and debris.

A Sebenza or Umnum, excluding the inlays (and ceramic detent ball), is a 100% metal knife that is tough as nails and ready for years of use. Bearing would lessen that in my mind.

I own a Ti-lock, which is a bearing-system knife from CRK. It is nicely built, but don't consider it more durable than my Sebenzas.
 
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kidcongo said:
Not a bearing fan.....here's a rant: The minute you have bearings in a knife you also typically have some sort of plastic bearing-cage that will degrade in time and lessen the overall lifespan of the knife, or become damaged by lubricants or cleaners. Also the pressure of the blade is now concentrated onto the tips of the 8-10 balls of the bearings rather than being evenly distributed across the entire face of the washer, so both the bearings and the blade are more susceptible to impact damage, pitting, galling etc. Furthermore, there is more nooks and crannies to collect dirt and debris.

A Sebenza or Umnum, excluding the inlays (and ceramic detent ball), is a 100% metal knife that is tough as nails and ready for years of use. Bearing would lessen that in my mind.

I own a Ti-lock, which is a bearing-system knife from CRK. It is nicely built, but don't consider it more durable than my Sebenzas.
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This is what I have in mind too regarding long term use of knives with ball bearings. I just think it has a high rate of failure due to the caged bearings.

But in any case, I am curious why knifemakers started using bearings though. What is the advantage they saw in using bearings compared to regular washers?

I did not know that Tilock runs on bearings. I guess I learned something new today... :)
 
:confused:Gosh, this is a hard one. I have Sebenzas and a Ti Lock but, carry the Seb much more.
I also have a flipper with the ball bearings, it's a nice knife, but without the BB's I don't think it would be so smooth. I like my 21 better.
I guess that says it all.
:eek:But wait! Will CRK be making bushing knives years from now?
 
ice_man said:
This is what I have in mind too regarding long term use of knives with ball bearings. I just think it has a high rate of failure due to the caged bearings.

But in any case, I am curious why knifemakers started using bearings though. What is the advantage they saw in using bearings compared to regular washers?

I did not know that Tilock runs on bearings. I guess I learned something new today... :)
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Bearings will allow lower resistance/friction, which is why most flippers use them, at least the ones that actually flip all the way open........not naming names. With the popularity of flippers, you see a lot of bearing-based pivots. CRK washers can be very buttery/glassy smooth, but won't beat a bearing for low friction.
 
kidcongo said:
Bearings will allow lower resistance/friction, which is why most flippers use them, at least the ones that actually flip all the way open........not naming names. With the popularity of flippers, you see a lot of bearing-based pivots. CRK washers can be very buttery/glassy smooth, but won't beat a bearing for low friction.
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Gotcha. I guess flippers were made to have their blades fly out instantaneously. :) I still like that buttery / glassy smooth feeling when you open a knife compared to one with very low friction. :D
 
I see them, similar to posts above, as a solution to a non-existent issue with a sebenza. My biggest problem with them is the caged issue listed above, and the horrific ordeal of cleaning an IKBS knife with no cage! I still have nightmares of little balls rolling around my kitchen table...
My Sebenzas are all plenty smooth enough and open fast enough for all my needs!
 
Using a finger to open my knife has a more natural feel to me than using my thumb. So I, for one, really like flippers. The smoothest opening flipper I own is a custom Rod Olson Quick Flick. It incorporates Brian Tighe's Sealed Thrust Bearing System and it's genuinely as smooth as glass. To me it's the flipper equivalent of a Small Sebenza. And that's saying a lot.
 
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I still ask the question, why loose ball bearings or plastic cages. Why not a sealed metal bearing units like what my lawn mower wheels use. The bearing is pushed in the wheel and the bolt fits through the hole and everything spins freely.
 
Ball bearings are for high speed, low drag operators-

I don't qualify for those in my knives..Guess I will have to keep them in the tools that actually take advantage of their design.
 
I'm not a fan, I also see them as a solution to a problem that I don't have. I have had a few knives with bearing pivots and was not massively impressed, also the increased potential for "longevity issues" is an obvious one. :)
 
Gadt said:
I still ask the question, why loose ball bearings or plastic cages. Why not a sealed metal bearing units like what my lawn mower wheels use. The bearing is pushed in the wheel and the bolt fits through the hole and everything spins freely.
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That is a great question. The reason is most sealed type bearings are not 'thrust bearings'. What I mean by that is they are meant for forces moving outward from the axle to what is rotating, like the wheel on you lawn mower. Conversely, in most knives, the bearings are actually there to remove the sideways friction of the blade against the slab, not the motion of the blade around the pivot. This is why loose or open cage bearings are used as they eliminate friction on the oblique angle. Hope that makes sense.
 
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Interesting question.
It sure is nice to open a flipper that runs on bearings - brings a smile to my face.
As for the Sebenza, I prefer iz the way it is.
I like to have control of the blade at any time.
I can take it apart and rebuild it nearly anywhere - no problem.
Only 1 tool needed to do so on the 21.
red mag
 
I guess if I see the need for fast opening I'll go back to one of my Pro-Tech auto's. Unfortunately not all states allow the carry of automatics. I guess they believe (those state politicians) that you can cut someone faster with an auto knife. In my case it would probably be myself.
 
I prefer simplicity in design in my one-handed folders, especially my CRKs. So for me that would exclude ball bearings.

Jim
 
kidcongo said:
That is a great question. The reason is most sealed type bearings are not 'thrust bearings'. What I mean by that is they are meant for forces moving outward from the axle to what is rotating, like the wheel on you lawn mower. Conversely, in most knives, the bearings are actually there to remove the sideways friction of the blade against the slab, not the motion of the blade around the pivot. This is why loose or open cage bearings are used as they eliminate friction on the oblique angle. Hope that makes sense.
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Thank you. That does make sense. Didnt think of it that way.
 
I have 2 knives eith bearings (spyderco southard), while smooth at first, they get gunky and VERY difficult to clean.

If CRK made knives with bearings I'd probably avoid.
 
kidcongo said:
That is a great question. The reason is most sealed type bearings are not 'thrust bearings'. What I mean by that is they are meant for forces moving outward from the axle to what is rotating, like the wheel on you lawn mower. Conversely, in most knives, the bearings are actually there to remove the sideways friction of the blade against the slab, not the motion of the blade around the pivot. This is why loose or open cage bearings are used as they eliminate friction on the oblique angle. Hope that makes sense.
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Great explanation.
 
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