What customers want

[Halbrust]

Those of you who sell:
Blade steel - 1095, O1, D2, 440c?
Handle material - Micarta, G10, wood?

What do you see selling the easiest? i.e. Is in the highest demand

I'm just starting, but will want to sell my knives from the beginning.
I'm not looking to make a big profit, in fact at the beginning will just try to recuperate my material and consumables cost. But having said that, do customers want to pay the higher price for the more expensive blade steel? I'm not going to be working with S30V, so I don't know if the slight upgrade in materials will make for a quicker/easier sale.

I'll be making fixed blades, which I think are a harder sale than folders. I'll be making for the thrill of doing so. But I don't want to have to keep or give away every knife I make. I enjoy the aesthetics of things most don't. So I will be making a short stout tanto with canvas micarta scale and a mirror polish on the left side and a wood scale and flinstone patterned blade on the other side. But I know that will most likely be a tough (nearly impossible) sell.

I'm done rambling... I'm willing to clarify my questions if anyone needs me to.

 

[james terrio]

We will be able to help you better if you fill out your profile and give us some idea what your skills and experience are.

I'm just starting, but will want to sell my knives from the beginning.

Mistake numero uno. :thumbdn: Sorry to rain on your parade, but unless you have an extensive machining/fabricating background, the likelihood of selling the knives you make right off the bat is extremely low... at least for anything resembling a profit. The bar has been set very high... a person can get a quite serviceable knife at Wally World or from about a million online retailers for around $50. So if you're going to make handmade knives and get paid accordingly, they better be pretty dang good. It's important to use and test your own knives, and have them peer-reviewed before sending them out to customers to find your mistakes, anyway.

It's best to decide on what kind of knives you want to make, then find the people who want to buy them. There is a market for every type of knife and every type of steel... our job as makers is to find the markets we can best serve. Whether or not your quality and prices can compete with other people who are already making those kind of knives, may be another story.

If you want to figure out what people are buying and decide what to make based on that... make t-shirts. Or popcorn. Or pretty much anything but knives.

So I will be making a short stout tanto with canvas micarta scale and a mirror polish on the left side and a wood scale and flinstone patterned blade on the other side.

Why? To alienate two potential markets in one swell foop? Neither mirror polishes nor flint-patterned finishes are exactly easy to make... if you can and want to make both, just make both and display them side-by-side to show your versatility.

My advice, as always, is the KISS principle. Concentrate on making a bunch of simple drop-point full-tang knives, with 3-4" blades. Get your grinds and plunges and general fit'n'finish to a good level of quality.

 

[Jason Fry]

My advice, as always, is the KISS principle. Concentrate on making a bunch of simple drop-point full-tang knives, with 3-4" blades. Get your grinds and plunges and general fit'n'finish to a good level of quality.

This.

To answer the OP question, stick with one of the mainstream steels like 1084, O1, D2, or 154 CM. Don't waste money on something snazzy till you can make a snazzy knife. I personally don't do well selling micarta knives, but some guys do. Micarta or some local hardwood ought to be good for a while. Again, don't waste money on stabilized whiz-bang or on ivory or whatever until your knives justify the expense.

 

[S.Alexander]

I think James about summed it up. If you want to sell knives then have a look at what's popular in the knife makers market. You'll get a good idea of your "competition," the level of fit and finish you should be at, and where you should be pricing your work.

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

^ Some good advice here from James and Jason

The knife you sell needs to be worth what you're asking for it. Until you've developed and understand good ergos and blade and edge geometry and you've verified your heat treat with through testing you need to plan on giving away or breaking everything you make. There is a learning curve and you're on the end of it where you don't know what it is that you don't know. In general, a person should make at least ten knives before they try to sell something.

edit to add:
It is very telling to note when "survival experts" or "martial arts experts" try to go about designing a knife their first efforts are usually pretty bad. It shows that just because a person knows how to use a knife and think they know what goes into making a good knife, they really don't. A good knife is deceptively simple. There is a lot of skill and knowledge in even a simple well executed design. And you have to make some real stinkers to learn what it is that you don't know. Go into it with humility and an open mind and have fun.

 

[Halbrust]

I'm glad I didn't respond to you right away. I read your response in a very negative tone.

We will be able to help you better if you fill out your profile and give us some idea what your skills and experience are.

Which part of my profile would help?
I have no experience knife making, but some metal working

Mistake numero uno. :thumbdn: Sorry to rain on your parade, but unless you have an extensive machining/fabricating background, the likelihood of selling the knives you make right off the bat is extremely low... at least for anything resembling a profit. The bar has been set very high... a person can get a quite serviceable knife at Wally World or from about a million online retailers for around $50. So if you're going to make handmade knives and get paid accordingly, they better be pretty dang good.

I won't sell something that I don't think is at least functional and free of defects.
Not dreaming of making a profit for the first year or so. I plan on charging just enough to recoup costs.

It's important to use and test your own knives, and have them peer-reviewed before sending them out to customers to find your mistakes, anyway.

I had thought about doing a pass-around with my first few knifes, to get feedback.

It's best to decide on what kind of knives you want to make, then find the people who want to buy them. There is a market for every type of knife and every type of steel... our job as makers is to find the markets we can best serve. Whether or not your quality and prices can compete with other people who are already making those kind of knives, may be another story.

Good point. It was the materials I need to invest in that I was hoping to get feedback on.

anything but [/I]knives.

But I don't WANT to make any of those things. I want to make knifes. I will make knifes even if I give them away.

Why? To alienate two potential markets in one swell foop? Neither mirror polishes nor flint-patterned finishes are exactly easy to make... if you can and want to make both, just make both and display them side-by-side to show your versatility.

That dual sided tanto is my dream knife (right now). My point was that I will make things that I like whether or not there is a desire for them. But because I do want to sell knifes I will also make what the market demands.

My advice, as always, is the KISS principle. Concentrate on making a bunch of simple drop-point full-tang knives, with 3-4" blades. Get your grinds and plunges and general fit'n'finish to a good level of quality.

Thank you for that!
Both the style suggestion and the KISS mindset.

 

[Halbrust]

^ Some good advice here from James and Jason

The knife you sell needs to be worth what you're asking for it. Until you've developed and understand good ergos and blade and edge geometry and you've verified your heat treat with through testing you need to plan on giving away or breaking everything you make. There is a learning curve and you're on the end of it where you don't know what it is that you don't know. In general, a person should make at least ten knives before they try to sell something.

I will not be doing my own heat treating, so at least that aspect shouldn't be a concern

It is very telling to note when "survival experts" or "martial arts experts" try to go about designing a knife their first efforts are usually pretty bad. It shows that just because a person knows how to use a knife and think they know what goes into making a good knife, they really don't. A good knife is deceptively simple. There is a lot of skill and knowledge in even a simple well executed design. And you have to make some real stinkers to learn what it is that you don't know. Go into it with humility and an open mind and have fun.

I may fall into this! Making knifes that I think are great, but are next to useless.
That's why I will also make simple tested designs as well.

 

[Darrin Sanders]

I'm not trying to be a smarty pants here so don't take this the wrong way. When selling anything to anybody, proper grammar goes a long way. The term you are looking for is, "knives" not "knifes".

 

[Frank Niro]

Here is another tip that may disappoint you. Tantos are not a big seller. Make a bunch of those and you will have a bunch to give away. You can make what you want but they may not sell or will have a very limited sales reception as far as models are concerned and your styling may be very appealing or buyers may find that to be a turn off.
Frank

 

[james terrio]

Paasarounds are an excellent idea :thumbup:

 

[Matthew Gregory]

I'm not trying to be a smarty pants here so don't take this the wrong way. When selling anything to anybody, proper grammar goes a long way. The term you are looking for is, "knives" not "knifes".

Beat me to it, Darrin.


Here's another take on this... Be true unto yourself.

If all you want to do is make money, your focus shouldn't be on the things mentioned, but instead focused on efficiency and how much or little it takes to reach an end result. Now, whether or not that makes a satisfactory knife is an entirely different story.

I have to differ with Nathan's take on this, though. The vast majority of custom knives I see available today hardly take ergonomics into account, and yet they sell very briskly. Many use oblique, inefficient edge and blade geometries, yet this is usually touted as a selling point...

Why do you want to make knives? What brought you to this? Is there something that drives you? The focus of your interest should drive your vision. Is it about making a better mousetrap, or do you just like shiny stuff? Both are entirely valid reasons, in my mind, btw.

It's credited to Bill Moran, but I'm sure it could be any number of other folks that said it first - "if you want to be a millionaire making knives, start with two million".

What you use is hardly as important as how you use it. If you wanted more proof of that, just look at the diverse level of materials the guys that have already posted use!

 

[crowncrazy87]

I am new to knife making as well. I never really thought about what the customers would want if I decided to sell. I would be more concered with making a good quality knife that would be fuctional for its intended purposes.

I have bought several knives that looked cool or I thought would work well for a task and just didn't.

Also, my wife does craft shows a lot a makes a variety of things, and just like with her stuff a lot of people make custom handmade knives. You have to be able to interact with the customers in a way to make them feel comfortable and confident in buying your product over the next guys when you may essentially have practically the same thing.

 

[AVigil]

Hi Hal,

When a new person comes on the forum and states about selling their first knives you often will get people scrambling to their keyboard and typing .....NO!

With good reason.

It is not that they will not sell, some people will buy just about anything.

It is the people here do not want you to fail and burn out and have a bad experience.

To be honest, knifemaking really is not that hard. Making a usable knife is something most people can do with some guidance.

But, if you want to make a good knife it will take many attempts and if you want to make a great knife it will be a long journey to say the least.

As for steel you use, pick if you want a high carbon or stainless. That is the first step. Alpha knife supply has short sections of both and you can buy a couple different to work with.

Since you are in Upland you might want to visit Tru Grit in Ontario. It is on Francis just west of Grove. Jeff Mutz is their knifemaker and he can help you in selection of abrasives, hardware and your heat treatment.

Make what you like, that is what will keep you going.

 

[Halbrust]

Some great advice here!!! Thank you all.
AVigil, I've already talked with Jeff Muntz via email, and will be getting most of my starting supplies from Tru Grit because it is so local.

 

[Drew Riley]

Start off making what you like, and if you do a good and careful job, chances are, you'll find someone who wants to buy it. Just don't try to reinvent the wheel from step one, and you should be good to go.

BTW, a lot of makers start off just posting pictures of designs/drawings. You'll get plenty of good advice/critique from everybody.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Drew's advice is really good.


For the time being, don't plan on selling anything.

Pick a style you like. Preferably one you already use ( so you know how one feels and cuts).

Make some sketches and cardboard patterns. Post them and your build plans on a Shop Talk thread and get feedback. Tell us all the plans, steel type, HT, method of shaping and finishing, handle plans, etc.

When you have made about ten or so, then you will have an idea of your abilities and the salability of your blades. People who have seen them may start asking if you will sell one or make another for them.

 

[pwheeler]

There's a lot of good advice here already, so I'll just add this.

The question I think anyone, selling anything, should ask themselves is "why?". Meaning, why should someone give you their money, for your product, versus any other product available on the market. I believe that if you can't come up with a good answer to that question, you shouldn't be trying to sell. Clearly, people will waste their money on almost anything, can be duped by marketing BS, etc. If you are willing to take advantage of that, that's up to you, but my moral compass says otherwise. If you start from a place of respect for your customers and their money, and strive to always give the best possible product, I think you will be in a good place. Even selling cheap, you are still competing with very reasonably priced production knives that will be functionally far superior to yours. When you move up a bit, you will be competing with every other knife maker around, some with many decades of experience and thousands upon thousands of blades under their belts.

If you turn out to be very talented and do a lot of homework before starting, some of your first knives might be sales worthy at a lowish price, but I would say that is a rare exception. Like pretty much everyone said, put the horse before the cart. Make, learn, fail, succeed, improve, then sell.

 

[AVigil]

Believe me if your knives are any good you will not have to wait until #10 to sell.

Some guys it takes awhile, others can sell from the get go. It all depends on your level of skill.

I have sold everything from #2 up and have only been able to save one knife for myself.

If they are good, they will sell, maybe not as fast as you like or for as much as you think they are worth

Be honest with your self and what you skill level is and you will have a much better idea as to when to start selling your blades.

 

[stezann]

I don't sell knives.
I could if i want, and you could as well as soon as people who see your product will start to ask you for making/selling them one or more, nothing wrong with it.
I prefer to give them for free to people special to me, and to use the steels and materials i love, not the "seller ones" as well as the designs i like to explore.
I don't need to fuel my shop with extra money, i try to stay cheap enough to follow on with my hobby to satisfy my attachment to the journey and getting better

 

[Taximanny]

As a newbie to knife making myself I didn't plan on selling at all.
I just wanted to see if I could do it.
So I read and read and read and watched u tube videos and still do.
My Moto is when you stop learning you stop living.

Anyways my knives are selling easily... I did not plan on it, it just happened.
All I know is I built what I wanted to build and what I like.

Now I'm three orders behind and about finished with the first one.
I'm not pleased with the color of micarta they wanted but the customer is king.
I think after I fill these orders...I'm going back to making exactly what I want to build.
If they don't like it they don't have to buy it.
It's going to be... " This is what I have ready to sell"
I did Taxidermy for almost 10 years. The first 4 years were awesome, I loved it.
Than it turned to a job. I got out this year and started building knives.

I promised myself that this will not turn to a job.
If clients don't like my work they don't have to buy.
No more special orders for me.

Just let things happen and have fun..