What did Scott Devanna say at his seminar at BLADE?

G

gixxer

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Sep 21, 2006
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Heard that he was talking about cryo on blade steel. I was not there, anybody else sit in on his seminar?
 
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You better make sure of exactly what he said . That's not a good statement to make considering the great number of different knife steels and their uses !
 
Yes, please don't misquote him. It doesn't take much to damage one's reputation.

Scott is a member... tsdevanna... he's a registered user so you'll have to email him through BF.
 
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Oh yea I do not want to spread misinformation, That's why I am curious as to exactly what he was talking about. I reworded it a hair...
 
I attended the seminar. Essentially his opinion was that cryo was not necessary for thin cross sections of steel, as in knives.

I don't recall if it was Scott or another person who said that Paul Bos was now in agreement on the cryo issue.
 
I've got real world experiance with the cryo. It works well to convert retained austenite to martensite in stainless steels. It does not do much for simple carbon steels.
 
It would sure be nice to skip a step - but!

When I see steel come off the plate quench at RCH 61.5 and then come out of cryo at RHC 63.5, it seems clear to me that something is happening in cryo - and in non-technical terms, I'm led to believe that what is happening is desireable.

When my customers ask me to stop doing cryo, I will, of course. Until then, I believe it at least meets the test of "do no harm".... and it sure seems to do some good. Wish I'd been there for the seminar.

What do you think Scott. Care to chime in for those of us who missed it? I suspect your seminar has been a little 'over-abreviated' here (if that's a word) :)

Rob!
 
I wonder if Butch Harner will comment .IIRC he uses cryo even on the very thin razors that he makes !
Retained austenite is a function of austenitizing temperature not thinness.
 
i use it on just about everything other then 10xx steel and the mixes of dammy made that way

does it help all im still not sure of but i have it in house for my high alloy steel (be it SS or high speed steel)

i use it not per steel thickness i use it to try and clean up as ,much RA as i can per steel alloy
some of the data sheets from crucible have listed air cool and or oil quench and cryo form a few from quenched temps for the most part i get there numbers as per data sheets but ther is some steel that i have worked up my own set of HT data points
 
There are two approaches at viewing cryo and its effects. The first is well established and quite observable, explainable and measurable, i.e. it is definitely real. This is the use of cryo to complete the conversion of austenite to martensite when, for whatever reason, Mf is below room temperature. 100% conversion is not a realistic expectation with any steel, and even rather simple steel may have as much as 6% retained austenite, while alloys with higher Cr and Ni will naturally have more problematic amounts, until it reaches this point it is often a matter of how much RA we are willing to settle with. If you get a significant jump in HRC from cryo on air hardening steels, this is expected and an accepted part of the heat treating process. If you get the same gains from simple oil hardening or water hardening steel, you can do one of two things- you can go to the extra time and expense of cryo or you can fix what is wrong in your initial heat treatments.

The other approach to viewing cryo is that it can help any alloy due to “unknown” or “unexplainable” phenomena that bears a striking resemblance to pyramid power or Dr. Turlingtons Elixir of Life. In fact, having no set boundaries, this approach doesn’t stop at steel and embraces claims of incredible gains in freezing almost any material- musical instruments play better, ladies stockings no longer develop runs, frozen speaker wires and guitar strings produce better sound, golf clubs hit twice as far, frozen tennis rackets help you play like a pro etc… the panacea effects are indeed endless if you are in this camp, and I am not just making this up each of the above, and many more, are actual claims made by people who sell this approach to the subject. The interesting part is that almost all the research from this perspective has been done by, or sponsored by, people selling the service of this process; a process, by the way, that is so complex and so dependant on highly specialized equipment that only they can reproduce the results claimed…but for a small fee of course.
 
I've been chasing this for years and talking to everyone I could about it at shows and otherwise. I recently acheived from what I could tell 2 points more of hardness and my blades coming out of the plate quenching as white as when they went in.
I'll be the first to say I stand corrected.. Thanks for putting it so well Kevin.
Ken.
 
Kevin does an excellent job commenting on this topic - if anyone wants to discuss further give me a call 800 365 1168
 
scott i l have to take you up on that to compare high temp temper vs cryo and lower temp temper of soem of the higher alloys
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
...golf clubs hit twice as far...
Click to expand...
Oooh!, Oooh! That sounds great. I could be the next Happy Gilmore. Does anyone have a dewer big enough to fit my driver? Thanks Kevin!
laugh.gif
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
The other approach to viewing cryo is that it can help any alloy due to “unknown” or “unexplainable” phenomena that bears a striking resemblance to pyramid power or Dr. Turlingtons Elixir of Life.
Click to expand...

Sounds like cryo is the modern day equivalent of wootz.

Hey... maybe that's how the ancients made wootz! :eek: I think I'm onto something here.

Then again, maybe I just had too much coffee.
 
The full potential of wootz can only be achieved if you quench in a human body cavity filled with yak piss and mothballs...... oh... followed by a cryo treatment, of course.

Does it matter what brand of mothballs, Kevin?... Remember, I live in Canada.


Rick
 
Hoping we can use one of the following types of urine available on eBay:

Boss Bull Elk
Whitetail Deer (Buck and Doe if it matters)
Red Fox (not the ancient comedian)
Coyote
Bobcat
Raccoon
Mink

Keeping my fingers crossed...
 
EVERYBODY knows that 1 mason jar full of cougar piss will work. Then cryo.

Buffing it out with narwhal blubber after cryo reduces the grain size a little.
 
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