What do police officers (or military, or whatever your service was) ACTUALLY use, from what you've seen?

SimplyMinded said:
I know some cops carry knives from the TDI line but I can't get past how ugly it is in my opinion. I get the design utilizes muscle memory the cop already has because of the pistol-like aspect but do we really want cops confusing yet another item with their firearm in the heat of the moment? I remember not so long ago a lady cop got in big trouble for capping a guy after thinking she had her taser and announcing she was deploying it. Were I a cop I'd probably want a spyderco police model. That way no defense lawyer in the world can say you're carrying something unfit for a public servant and get some crook sympathy.
I reserve the right to change my opinion if somebody makes a "police gladius".
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First of all, let’s not take one incident and assume it’s a general or common problem across the board. Criticisms of that particular officer’s action aside, which clearly was a HUGE error, that situation is far from commonplace, nor was that a circumstance where any knife would/should have even come into play on the side of the LEOs. I think you’re making a huge leap assuming most cops would forget all of their training and resort to “accidentally” pulling a knife (a tool almost none of us are actually trained to use), given all the other tools we carry (which we are actually trained to use), or an assumption that we’re all just as prone to that kind of confusion, which I don’t think is fair. But, life-and-death stress is a bitch, and no one ever really knows how they’d react during it until they actually have to.

Second of all, I’d love to see how fast anyone can get a manual folder out and reliably locked open… with their off-hand… while fighting for your gun with the other… oh, and you’re rolling around on the ground…and your hands are sweaty… or it’s raining. Just some food for thought.

That said, the TDI knife was not designed to “emulate” a pistol or it’s familiarity/function, it’s designed to provide a fast, natural, positive grip which also, due to its shape, directs the blade forward in a thrust when held in the fist (using the same gross motor function as a punch). It is designed specifically for the purpose of off-hand defense for pistol retention, a situation where deadly force is in play, and punching alone would probably not be as effective to win the fight. As everyone is probably aware, in such a high-stress situation, fine motor function is diminished, but everyone can (and usually does) resort to punching with the free hand. There are videos out there comparing the speed of deployment of the TDI to other types of knives, and it’s an eye-opener. Also, it has a relatively short blade, which, from what I understand, is to deliver effective fight-stopping injuries, rather than deep, penetrating wounds with a higher likelihood of lethality.

In other words, if your’e a cop and your pistol is grabbed by the bad guy, you have to try to retain your pistol in the holster with your strong hand while you use the knife with your weak hand to fight off the bad guy from the gun, so your own gun does not get used against you. This is why I personally always carry my knife on my off-side when on duty.

I don’t carry a TDI, but I have seriously considered it many times over my career. While it may be “ugly,” it is not made to win beauty contests, but for hastiness of deployment and the utmost simplicity of implementation during stress when you might be fighting for your gun, and potentially your life. Frankly, I think it’s simplicity is downright genius, wish I thought of it, however it’s size and shape do limit the other useful aspects of having a knife for general utility, which a duty knife will likely get used for far more often in one’s career. For me, just reducing stuff to carry on my belt is one reason why I prefer an auto folder that is primarily intended for utility, but can be pressed into reliable pistol defense should I ever need it to be, and that works for me. I make no claims to be an expert on the subject, or that everyone should do it my way, but I have thought about it quite a bit. Certainly more than most non-cops just wondering what knives cops choose to carry here on the interwebz, and, frankly, most non-knife cops lol.

With regard to the incident you mentioned, I think it would be highly unlikely that, in any ordinary LE situation where a cop would be INTENTIONALLY unholstering their pistol (or their Taser, for that matter) during the course of duty, someone would get so confused they would pull a TDI knife. Nothing is impossible, of course, but I really don’t think it would even be thought about until it was needed to be used for it’s intended purpose where one is fighting for their own gun, primarily because the TDI sheath is meant to be mounted behind the mag pouch against the waist, partly to keep it out of view/bad guy grab access, and that is not exactly an instinctive “go-to” reach spot for us cops. Especially not in relation to the issued tools mounted on the outside of the belt which we are trained to use.
 
Centermass said:
First of all, let’s not take one incident and assume it’s a general or common problem across the board. Criticisms of that particular officer’s action aside, which clearly was a HUGE error, that situation is far from commonplace, nor was that a circumstance where any knife would/should have even come into play on the side of the LEOs. I think you’re making a huge leap assuming most cops would forget all of their training and resort to “accidentally” pulling a knife (a tool almost none of us are actually trained to use), given all the other tools we carry (which we are actually trained to use), or an assumption that we’re all just as prone to that kind of confusion, which I don’t think is fair. But, life-and-death stress is a bitch, and no one ever really knows how they’d react during it until they actually have to.

Second of all, I’d love to see how fast anyone can get a manual folder out and reliably locked open… with their off-hand… while fighting for your gun with the other… oh, and you’re rolling around on the ground…and your hands are sweaty… or it’s raining. Just some food for thought.

That said, the TDI knife was not designed to “emulate” a pistol or it’s familiarity/function, it’s designed to provide a fast, natural, positive grip which also, due to its shape, directs the blade forward in a thrust when held in the fist (using the same gross motor function as a punch). It is designed specifically for the purpose of off-hand defense for pistol retention, a situation where deadly force is in play, and punching alone would probably not be as effective to win the fight. As everyone is probably aware, in such a high-stress situation, fine motor function is diminished, but everyone can (and usually does) resort to punching with the free hand. There are videos out there comparing the speed of deployment of the TDI to other types of knives, and it’s an eye-opener. Also, it has a relatively short blade, which, from what I understand, is to deliver effective fight-stopping injuries, rather than deep, penetrating wounds with a higher likelihood of lethality.

In other words, if your’e a cop and your pistol is grabbed by the bad guy, you have to try to retain your pistol in the holster with your strong hand while you use the knife with your weak hand to fight off the bad guy from the gun, so your own gun does not get used against you. This is why I personally always carry my knife on my off-side when on duty.

I don’t carry a TDI, but I have seriously considered it many times over my career. While it may be “ugly,” it is not made to win beauty contests, but for hastiness of deployment and the utmost simplicity of implementation during stress when you might be fighting for your gun, and potentially your life. Frankly, I think it’s simplicity is downright genius, wish I thought of it, however it’s size and shape do limit the other useful aspects of having a knife for general utility, which a duty knife will likely get used for far more often in one’s career. For me, just reducing stuff to carry on my belt is one reason why I prefer an auto folder that is primarily intended for utility, but can be pressed into reliable pistol defense should I ever need it to be, and that works for me. I make no claims to be an expert on the subject, or that everyone should do it my way, but I have thought about it quite a bit. Certainly more than most non-cops just wondering what knives cops choose to carry here on the interwebz, and, frankly, most non-knife cops lol.

With regard to the incident you mentioned, I think it would be highly unlikely that, in any ordinary LE situation where a cop would be INTENTIONALLY unholstering their pistol (or their Taser, for that matter) during the course of duty, someone would get so confused they would pull a TDI knife. Nothing is impossible, of course, but I really don’t think it would even be thought about until it was needed to be used for it’s intended purpose where one is fighting for their own gun, primarily because the TDI sheath is meant to be mounted behind the mag pouch against the waist, partly to keep it out of view/bad guy grab access, and that is not exactly an instinctive “go-to” reach spot for us cops. Especially not in relation to the issued tools mounted on the outside of the belt which we are trained to use.
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That's fair, but the TDI is still ugly. YMMV. And if you want a knife for combat you should be realistically looking for something long enough to puncture vital organs which is why most military combat knives are 7" long. You'll not get the entire length through due to the toughness of human anatomy but 4" will do. The TDI's, all of which I've seen have a profile not suited to the thrust, are going to require either a serious and trained into memory knowledge of veins and arteries or sheer luck.
This same practical combat concept is why people choose .45 over .22s. The longer a fight lasts, the more chance a participant has of losing.
 
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SimplyMinded said:
That's fair, but the TDI is still ugly. YMMV. And if you want a knife for combat you should be realistically looking for something long enough to puncture vital organs which is why most military combat knives are 7" long. You'll not get the entire length through due to the toughness of human anatomy but 4" will do. The TDI's, all of which I've seen have a profile not suited to the thrust, are going to require either a serious and trained into memory knowledge of veins and arteries or sheer luck.
This same practical combat concept is why people choose .45 over .22s. The longer a fight lasts, the more chance a participant has of losing.
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It depends. If you are suggesting knife fight as standing apart with daggers drawn. Then yeah. Bigger is better

If you are having a wrestle. Smaller will be a bit quicker and a bit easier to get the pointy end in. And they are less likely to notice you are using it. And it takes up less room on your belt.

There is definitely an argument for Smaller clearing style knives.

The .45 over .22 argument is similar. Yes a Bigger bullet is better. But a heavier gun is a pain to drag around everywhere.

Especially when you basically never use either gun or knife.

Here we go this might help explain the idea.

So the smaller knife with the angled handle can then be worn and concealed in mabye more convenient places. And more settings.

So here she can get at it with either hand from a stronger arm position. (If I wanted to lift something that is basically where I place a heavy object. So I get a bit of mechanical advantage)

Where a bigger knife may be more limited.

But of course there is a compromise in massive stabbing.
 
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SimplyMinded said:
That's fair, but the TDI is still ugly. YMMV. And if you want a knife for combat you should be realistically looking for something long enough to puncture vital organs which is why most military combat knives are 7" long. You'll not get the entire length through due to the toughness of human anatomy but 4" will do. The TDI's, all of which I've seen have a profile not suited to the thrust, are going to require either a serious and trained into memory knowledge of veins and arteries or sheer luck.
This same practical combat concept is why people choose .45 over .22s. The longer a fight lasts, the more chance a participant has of losing.
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You are also generalizing, again, that the goal of a law enforcement officer is to kill the suspect in a fight. Law enforcement and combat are two different things.
 
I had a friend who was a LEO (haven't seen him in years), and back in the late '90s he was carrying a Benchmade Tsunami (a very early BM model), and a CRKT K.I.S.S. He said that sometimes the only one he carried was the K.I.S.S. He eventually snapped the blade on the Tsunami by heavy prying with it.

I walked past a cop several years ago and recognized a Kershaw Leek clipped to his pocket.

Jim
 
Centermass said:
You are also generalizing, again, that the goal of a law enforcement officer is to kill the suspect in a fight. Law enforcement and combat are two different things.
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No, I'm stating that the goal of a cop in a real fight is to survive. If the cop needed non-lethal he wouldn't have pulled a knife. At any rate, I'm not a cop and I get that department policy may not allow a large knife for liability reasons. The TDIs are still ugly.
 
Drop bear said:
If you are having a wrestle. Smaller will be a bit quicker and a bit easier to get the pointy end in. And they are less likely to notice you are using it. And it takes up less room on your belt.



So the smaller knife with the angled handle can then be worn and concealed in mabye more convenient places. And more settings.

So here she can get at it with either hand from a stronger arm position. (If I wanted to lift something that is basically where I place a heavy object. So I get a bit of mechanical advantage)

Where a bigger knife may be more limited.
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Those are good arguments. I guess it would be easier to wear getting in and out of a squad car too. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Kabar and own quite a few, just not the TDIs.
 
SimplyMinded said:
Those are good arguments. I guess it would be easier to wear getting in and out of a squad car too. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Kabar and own quite a few, just not the TDIs.
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Of those clearing knife options. Eg. The clinch pick or rhe benchmade odo something. I think the kabar is the best thought out. And one of the most affordable.(which is the ultimate madness with these kives)

I mean you want to be able to get to that handle. Which is why it is a weird sort of fatty. And you want to be able to use the knife to open packets and stuff so that you know where it is.

Even with the weird angle I think it would flop around less if say a benchmade. (But I also haven't bought any of them and wacked them in to trees to see if they spin out of my hand)

Benchmade SOCP.

Definitely sexier but 3 times the price. And I wouldn't like to use that with wet hands. Or be pulling it out in public to cut sandwiches.

Benchmade should probably give you another sheath full of bandaids to go with that.
 
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Been doing contractor security for the better part of a year now. Sounds like it's like anything else. Most people have gas station equivalent knives. My road super carries a Boker Kalashnikov.
Honestly guys as sad is it is, the general public aren't knife people. They do not care.
Heck, many do not even carry a knife.

I use my knives every day, despite not being in a warehouse anymore. They are used mostly for food prep now. I often wonder how these people get by with no knives, haha.

Even the engineering department at my post do not carry knives. Crazy.
 
Michael Pardue said:
31 years professional fire fighter and paramedic….. last 16 on heavy rescue….. I small fixed blade which I made worked best for me….always ready….not
Much to go wrong with it.
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Where do you keep your fixed blade? I’ve tried to carry a fixed blade in my gear and in my station pants but I can never find a good place to put it. I find putting it back in its sheath is too difficult with one hand
 
LEO and fixed blades...If i had to use one in some sort of defensive situation, i'd be fired for out of policy equipment, and under Ca's new laws, probably prosecuted at the State level, and definitely investigated at the Federal level. It isn't worth it, even to the "At least you're alive crowd"....I'd suggest to carry a secondary, within policy, firearm rather than a fixed blade.
 
dano said:
LEO and fixed blades...If i had to use one in some sort of defensive situation, i'd be fired for out of policy equipment, and under Ca's new laws, probably prosecuted at the State level, and definitely investigated at the Federal level. It isn't worth it, even to the "At least you're alive crowd"....I'd suggest to carry a secondary, within policy, firearm rather than a fixed blade.
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I don't think that's what this is about. Maybe I'm wrong.

I was under the impression this was focused on the utility portion of it.

If it's about getting stabby stabby, then I guess I missed that.
 
I didn't carry a blade when I was on the job. Those that did, carried fixed blade in a sheath attached to their inner or outer vest. All of the members on the tactical squad did carry a knife. Most were K-Bars.
 
Silvanus said:
Where do you keep your fixed blade? I’ve tried to carry a fixed blade in my gear and in my station pants but I can never find a good place to put it. I find putting it back in its sheath is too difficult with one hand
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I always carry on horizontal on my
Belt….. that’s a leather one. On my bunker gear I used a kydex sheath and hung from snap on bunker coat
 
I've seen Buck knives, Kabars mule folders, Benchmades, Zero Tolerance, HK automatics, Spyderco, Gerber, CRKT knives, Cold Steel.

Benchmades, CRKT M16s, and Gerbers are the most common. I've only seen two Zero Tolerance knives in the military, the first from someone who is another knife fanatic, and the other by a random tank mechanic using a ZT0350 to pry at something. 🤣 The Kabar folders were all carried by Marines I've worked with, which is pretty amusing.

Interestingly I think that most I've seen are Benchmades, easily a dozen different ones, which makes a lot of sense considering they hold a contract with the PX. I personally think Spydercos are the best value for soldiers, and honestly no longer recommend Benchmade to guys. I've only seen one Spyderco my entire time though, by the same knife fanatic with the ZT.

I rarely see fixed blades, evening being in FORSCOM, I pretty much only see folding knives. Another interesting note is that they really don't issue knives much anymore. I guess they've figured out that if they don't give you one most people will just buy their own. I've tried putting in orders for Gerbers before and they get rejected every time.

Personally I've carried a dozen different knives. Benchmade 940, Presido, Griptilain, Bugout, AFO; Spyderco Manix 2, PM2, Delica. Buck 110/112, SAK pioneer, Leathermans, Sebenza, Microtech Socom, etc.
 
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