What do you consider long term survival and How do you know you will be in it?

P

Plainsman

Joined
Apr 5, 1999
Messages
1,160
I see many posts referring to carrying items ONLY for long term survival situations. What do you consider long term survival?

Secondly, how do you KNOW you will be in a long term survival situation ahead of time? If you know, then how is it "survival"? To me it seems like you are just planning on living a primitive lifestyle.

I see any survival situation is one where you have 'unexpectedly been thrown into it. If you know it is coming, it shouldn't be a question of "survival"...Or am I clouding the issue?



------------------
Plainsman :)
primitiveguy@hotmail.com

You use what you have on you, then you improvise! :)
 
Great Post!!!!!!
I feel that most people haven't been out in
the field long enough to even miss their
mother bringing them a glass of milk. If that
goes over your head that's ok.
I see posts of people needing so much gear
to survive????? that you'll make yourself
worthless just packing it around. to me that's primitive living not survival.
"beware the man with one gun" he may just
know how to use it!!
If you want to be proficient you need to be
more than a backyard or weekend survivalist with a ton of gear. Most situations are going
to be short term. (less than 10 days unless
your brain dead or completly loose your cool)
The only long term survival sit. in this day
and age would be a national disaster.
Maybe this will cause somebody to respond I didn't see much of a response to serious
survival sit. or problems on posts.

------------------
http://www.imt.net/~goshawk
Don't walk in tradition just because it feels good!!!!!
Romans 10:9,10
Hebrews 4:12-16
Psalm 91

 
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[This message has been edited by jrf (edited 12-26-2000).]
 
What if you loose all the preparedness you
brought with you???????????
How many have gone on a backing trip without
the freeze dried food, fuel stoves sleeping
bags and thermarest mattress and tried to
live off the land for 6 or 8 days which is
a fairly short time. I don't see too many
posts on this or have we become a society
of planers and preparers and talkers instead of doers.Excluding military survival schools. Beenthere done that.

------------------
http://www.imt.net/~goshawk
Don't walk in tradition just because it feels good!!!!!
Romans 10:9,10
Hebrews 4:12-16
Psalm 91

 
Good question!

I guess it depends on where you live and the circumstances.
I live in Kitimat which is still only half way "up" BC. There is lots of very rugged country around here. We're still looking for the remains of a quite a few people, even after knowing exactly where they started from - and that's close to towns! The point here is that it often took quite a while to find their abandoned vehicle etc.

It's very easy here to drive a long way into the mountains along old logging roads. If a snowstorm or avalanche happens it may not be so easy to get out. You would think that you just sit and build a nice camp and fire and wait for the search planes. Problem is that with low cloud conditions and mountains you might be waiting weeks - or longer.

People who have gone down in small planes (even with flight plan) have had to walk out. Some planes and people have never been found. It sounds improbable but it's true.

So I figure that it might come in useful to learn how to make a "situation" of a few weeks more comfortable, make snowshoes, etc..

Jimbo
 
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[This message has been edited by jrf (edited 12-26-2000).]
 
The point I was trying to make is not to
purposly put your life in danger or to go
without any gear or preperation or planning.
The point was TO DO not just TALK and to
do it without everything but the kitchen sink and not necessarily alone. I see reference to small, med., large and extra large survival kits. I guarentee nothing will give
you more confidence than to acually do it for
more than a weekend in your backyard with very little equipment. Your post seemed to
carry most things too an extream.

------------------
http://www.imt.net/~goshawk
Don't walk in tradition just because it feels good!!!!!
Romans 10:9,10
Hebrews 4:12-16
Psalm 91

 
deleted.

[This message has been edited by jrf (edited 12-26-2000).]
 
Personally, I call the stuff I learn Wilderness Skills more than Survival Skills. I love the outdoors, as I'm sure you all do too, and want to be able to do things out there. Primitive living being one of them.
 
I`ve just remmbered that there's a quote by Ray Mears I like, and thought you might too.

"We should learn to travel like the Bushman carrying less by knowing more about the natural environment which surrounds us.
In this way we can travel further both in body, mind and spirit." - Ray Mears
 
There were a lot of great responses to my earlier post. Everybody got me clarified on the difference. But I really didn't see any answers to the second part.

I'm getting this from other threads where people have mentioned "not taking a saw" or "not taking a ______" because it would 'only be a short term situation.'

I've seen nice days turn into a 4 day snowstorm that took 3 more days to dig out of. I would say that if I carried only short term gear, that I would really be wishing for a few more items. Not saying I couldn't make it, but if I carried the same thing ALL THE TIME, then I wouldn't be second guessing myself.

How can you 'determine' if you will end up in a short term or long term situation?

And how can you say that you WON'T want certain items along since it will "only" be a short term survival situation?

ANY survival tool is useful in both situations, but I can't see leaving one behind, because "I think" it could only be short term...

I'm still confused and NOT trying to start a debate, so please keep it friendly!
smile.gif




------------------
Plainsman :)
primitiveguy@hotmail.com

You use what you have on you, then you improvise! :)
 
Great debate...

Proper Prior Preperation Prevents Poor Performance. thus... yes carry what you think you'll need.

I suggest, however, that you look at each item and determine if there is a lighter way to accomplish the same thing. I carry a saw (similar to a chainsaw blade) instead of an axe... it along with my ability to knock old dead trees over and then pound them into workable sizes covers that area FOR ME.

I could give more examples of what I do but the key here is "what are you comfortable with?" When making your decisions... I suggest you look at alternatives to carrying the kitchen sink into the woods unless you want to create a dehydrated and heat exhausted survival situation. Just my humble openion....

Oh yeah and train for the worst and learn how you can get by with nothing... just in case you have one of those "except for the grace of God situations"...

------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
Short vs. long....


I'd say the first distinction, where short term ceases to be short, is when I will not survive without finding things to eat. The second, where long-term survival turns into primitive living (Aside from choice) is when I need to move to large game to build clothing, and not just for immediate needs.

Primitive living is something I see as me deciding I no longer want to live with other people, and head out for the woods. This is where I take an axe, and other heavy stuff. Long-term survival is something I prepare for when traveling far from population centers, or in difficult terrain. Short-term is near population centers, in high-traffic areas, or where I expect to be found in a day or so.

A survival situation is not something I would enter into intentionally, but it is something I can plan and prepare for, and practice for. And as far as being stuck somewhere without all my gear, well, at an extreme end, if I walked outside in only the long-johns I have on now, and locked the door, I'd be in a survival situation, and I'd better find someone to let me in, or break a window, 'cause I'll be dead in not too many minutes. Survival is not comfy, and in this weather, three hours without shelter is a bit optimistic... I hope I have enough will and skill to survive anything I encounter, and should I die, I hope that I'm thouroughly eaten before my rescuers show up, so there'll be less of me to pack out...


Stryver
 
Goshawk, I see what you are saying, but remember all you have to do is ignore any threads you do not care for. As far as the merits of this or that piece of equipment, I personally like to see what others like and how they might have tested a piece of equipment. Granted no piece of equipment is truly indispensable. But certain things do make survival a bit easier and are extremely helpful. Such as the debate over paracord vs. other types of cordage. I read this with interest as I myself have always preferred a thin decoy type cord to the thicker paracord. But it gave me pause for consideration when its merits were ticked off. As far as some posts getting more traffic than others, I think that some posts are easier to post to, some posts might take more time than someone can give it right away, I am guilty of this, I have posted on old topics several times after they are falling down the list, some of them being Dave’s topics because I do not always have the time to write at the moment. Then there are some, like the horse scenario where I personally have little or no experience, I have not been on a horse since I was a child, and do not feel qualified to participate. As far as “doing”. Well no I cannot say I have every deliberately forced myself into a situation where I could practice true survival, usually I am doing quite the opposite, making damn sure that I do not get myself into that situation by whatever skill I do posses. So possibly my skills may be termed more as “anti-survival” skills, a lot of which are mostly common sense and are gleaned from not a few years spent in the woods, but not really in any unusual situation or occupation, and not really in league with most of the moderators and others I have seen here. As far as testing myself, I can only claim to have spent time practicing certain things mostly out of the desire to either survive , or to emulate in some way a time period gone by. Somewhat of a test I suppose, to try and practice what they actually did for "survival".

------------------
Lee

LIfe is too important to be taken seriously. Oscar Wilde
 
If I can't delete my post, at least I can edit it.



[This message has been edited by Hoodoo (edited 01-10-2000).]
 
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