What do you consider to be a "Custom"?

BBQ BOY said:
BINGO!!!!
I don't like makers trying to glorify their product to self place themselves towards the top of the pack.
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I don't mean to sound rude, but I can't wrap my head around that statement. If im assuming correctly, I fail to see why a knife labeled as "custom" would be held in a higher esteem than any of the other knives that fall under other terminology. The reasoning behind my "handmade" stance is that I find that "custom" takes away from the essence of self employment and artistic vision.
 
Some really good points here. I really like the distinction between Custom and Handmade, and I do see a lot of makers specifying that they are "Handmade" knife makers.

I don't have much of a problem with the practices of the smaller makers. They (generally) tend to be highly ethical and very transparent about their processes. It's some of the larger producers that keep things very opaque. I could name names, but I am sure you can all think of a few examples of popular brands where there's very little discussion of who actually MAKES the knives.

I think the difference between a Custom/handmade knife and a "limited production" knife is huge, but it's downplayed to the point of obscurity by some makers

*edit: I want to be clear than none of these labels, to me at least, have the slightest influence on the quality of the final product. Some of the finest knives i know of are label as "production" by their companies...
 
it's not so much the knife maker who tends to classify their own products in this manner, but generally customers who do that.

For example, by showing your newly acquired handmade knife in a knife forum labeled 'custom knives', the poster might be insinuating that the knife is custom made for them personally. Even though they might have bought the knife from a dealer. That is not the fault of the maker, since the posting party made the decision, perhaps based on their lack of knowledge which might have been bolstered by someone who did the same thing before them.

In another forum that I visit, there is a 'custom knives' subforum that I visit regularly where knives that, to me, are obviously NOT custom made, (perhaps handmade, however, but to a maker's standardized pattern) are posted as such.

Now, as for the 'custom' designation, I feel that if a maker designs a knife around their own needs, that is really no different than them designing a knife around a customer's requirements. It's still custom made, just not for a custom-er. I think 'prototypes' fall into this category, but that subsequent knives built around that exact design fall out of the category of custom made, and into the handmade.

I feel that custom knives can only be one offs. Subsequent knives, made from the same pattern but with customer-chosen materials and finish, now become custom-ized hand made knives.

A knife maker who continues to develop prototypes, inventing new designs, in my eyes is still a custom knife maker, even if the majority of the knives they sell which bear their name are mid tech or production knives. But those knives are not custom knives.

Anyway, that's my take on the subject. It's the invention of a design that categorizes a knife as custom or not.
 
Words can sometimes be a problem as the person saying the words has one meaning in mind and the person hearing the words has another. The techniques that are incorporated these days are often in a league of their own and do not necessarily fall into one single bucket with a word on it.

I feel in the end, it is the responsibility of the maker (another word) to be open and honest in representing their work and their invlovement in its creation. I also feel it is the responsibility of the buyer to ask questions about what they are about to buy.

Open communication between all parties will resolve discrepencies in definitions.

Brian
 
By the strictest definitions, I agree with handmade vs. custom distinction.
However, I think bundling categories 1, 2, and 3 together when discussing a maker's pattern of work is a useful generalization.
The terms are applied to both the knives individually and the maker generally, and one should be clear on the subject to which the adjective is being applied.

for what it's worth, I think my stuff falls mostly under 'customized handmade', whether I'm the customer or someone else is.

'custom' is frequently an easy shorthand that doesn't seem worth disputing until the distinction is useful.

-Daizee
 
I would go with 1 and 2 being considered custom knives. 3 would be what I consider to be, using cigar manufacturing terms, a small batch or boutique knife.

If a knife is hand made on an existing design to the client's specifications there is a good chance no 2 knives will ever look exactly alike which in my mind, defines custom. So by my definition, even a knife that is production made but has been reground, refinished, new scales, back spacer, added jimping, waved, etc. would be considered custom as it no longer looks like the production knife it originally was and is very likely unique in its own way.

However, if you are using custom to define a specific knife maker (such as so-and-so is a custom knife maker), that maker would have to produce knifes that would fit into category 1 or 2. So if a knife maker makes knives in all 5 categories, only knives made using categories 1 and 2 by that maker would be considered custom; in my opinion of course. :thumbup:
 
Here's a thought... What would you call a production knife that's been heavily modded or otherwise customized? Just customized? Is it more than production?
 
I agree with William Woods on this one, I think his analysis is spot on. I also think the OP hit the nail on the head as far as the various ways a "custom" knife can be defined! I think a custom is a broad term, and there are varying levels or degrees of custom. Except #5... that's production for sure.
 
Mudbug007 said:
I'm gonna agree with Darrin on this one. In the truest sense of the term, only #1 is a custom knife. Probably a lot of the dilution of the word "custom" comes from people who've bought high dollar production knives and then want to justify the cost by calling it a "custom".
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+1 This is pretty much how i feel
 
WilliamWoods said:
OK as a maker this is how I see it. My opinion only.

1,2,3 are custom knives because of the relationship between the maker and the product.

4 is a "mid-tech" knife. I believe Ken Onion coined this phrase to describe knives that were cut, ground, and HT and then the maker/designer does the final fit and finish to insure quality. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/293969-What-are-quot-Midtech-quot-knives

5 is a production knife. A lot of people may disagree with me here but this is obvious to me.
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Same here!!
 
I agree with Mr Woods. His thoughts seem to mirror my experience and what I think is the position of the majority of long time makers and collectors.

There are those who stick to the strict dictionary definition, but I do not see that definition carried forward when I go to a show. If the dictionary definition held true there would be very few custom knives.
 
^^^ I agree with Gus and whomever he agrees with. :) If we apply a purely literal definition of "custom" then there are precious few custom knives at any custom knife show. As for "hand made" - I have yet to see a knife made by hand without the use of tools.
 
Bastid said:
I agree with Mr Woods. His thoughts seem to mirror my experience and what I think is the position of the majority of long time makers and collectors.

There are those who stick to the strict dictionary definition, but I do not see that definition carried forward when I go to a show. If the dictionary definition held true there would be very few custom knives.
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I ditto the above, from a collector point of view.
 
1, 2, and 3 are custom knives IMO.

It's also my opinion that Sebenzas and Hinderers are not customs. You may get one with a hand ground custom blade like the Hinderers, but that just means the knife is "customized" not custom. Similarly, just because you get a Sebenza with a unique graphic engraved on the handles, doesn't make it custom. It's just customized. They are production knives with customized features.

Of course take what I said with a grain of salt or two. This is just how I feel about the subject.
 
I also agree with Mr. Woods, and Harkamus. just because it's small production or expensive doesn't mean it's custom.
 
For me, custom means 1-off. Period. You'll never catch me using it to mean anything else, right or wrong though I may be. With that said, I certainly can't do anything about all the mass producers selling their runs of lord-knows-how-many 'custom' pieces on ebay crowding out my listings, or anybody falling between myself and they. I'd only hope that one day I will have sufficient reputation not to need any words beyond my mark and a fair description of the piece to catch prospective buyers attentions, and that the point might thus become to me truly academic. Here's hoping/striving.
 
Good Question but all things in life are not relative so when people stating that there "opinion" is bla bla bla.....its total nonsense.............

In order to understand what a custom knife is we must first understand what the definition of custom made is since this is about a specific product......so:

So Custom-made is: "any item made according to the specifications of an individual buyer"

So a Custom Knife is exactly that and that alone, anything that falls outside of those specific peramiters is NOT a custom knife, anyone that says anything different is simply wrong since the definition is absolute.

BePrepared said:
I've been on this site for a long time now, and i've noticed that there is a huge array of what can be called "custom" knives.

A few of the definitions i've seen (though not always DEFINED at all)

1. A custom is a knife designed for a specific user, with user chosen steel, shape, construction, etc and is typically a one off

2. A custom is a knife made by an individual maker, that is produced with some customization IE scale material, bolster material, blade material, but the knife itself is based upon an existing design or pattern with only aesthetic changes. Often this general model is reproduced based upon individual ordering.

3. A custom is a knife designed and made by a specific maker, with that maker choosing materials, steels, construction etc. and is made by that persons own hand often dozens, or hundreds are made and sold based upon a specific design with little or no variation on the specific models

4. A custom is a knife designed and made by a specific maker, with that maker choosing materials, steels, construction etc. but made partly by employees or associates and then "finished" by the designer, often dozens, or hundreds are made and sold based upon a specific design with little or no variation on the specific models

5. A custom is a knife designed and made by a specific designer or group of designer but is produced in large quantities by a few (or several) employees with little or no direct contact with the designer or designers.

I have seen every one of these referred to as a "custom knife" so which do you see as custom, and where is the point at which it becomes "production"?
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jtny said:
Good Question but all things in life are not relative so when people stating that there "opinion" is bla bla bla.....its total nonsense.............

In order to understand what a custom knife is we must first understand what the definition of custom made is since this is about a specific product......so:

So Custom-made is: "any item made according to the specifications of an individual buyer"

So a Custom Knife is exactly that and that alone, anything that falls outside of those specific peramiters is NOT a custom knife, anyone that says anything different is simply wrong since the definition is absolute.
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Let's see if I've got this right - you're declaring that the word "custom" covers and modifies the entirety of human description that attaches to the word "custom". Let's see, it appears from the hyphenated word "custom-made" that a buyer is necessary, at least according to the "definition" you are using (there are so many to choose from online, aren't there?). What if there's no "buyer"? Seems like the definition you are using crumbles.

Think I'll just go back to my own opinion - and accept that it is one of those things in life to which we are all entitled. I prefer a world not ruled by absolutes.
 
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