What do you consider to be a 'handmade' knife?

I'd want to include heat treatment in that definition. As we all know, the heat treatment is just as important as the steel used. Without a good HT, even a perfectly symmetrical, awesomely swedged blade is no better than fancy letter opener.

The problem is that farming out blades to be HT'd is a commonly accepted practice. I'd like to point though out that the masters (Bill Bagwell, Tony Bose, Don Fogg, et al.) HT their blades themselves.

- Christian

That is a great point to keep in mind, Christian. I am not commenting on the "masters" in my words to follow but, to play the Devil's advocate in a way, I would actually prefer "young" makers do send the parts to a true master rather than customers spending lots of money on so so knives to support their learning experience. I don't say that in a hurtful way or in a way that I don't want to help "young" makers, but say you have a maker that has a real talent for everything else and they haven't mastered heat treat yet...? You could look at it in the same way for a company that may send off parts to a true master. I would prefer that over a mediocre in house heat treat, personally.

I do completely agree with you, but your comment sparked a few thoughts.

What would bother me is if a maker marketed knives as completely in house and they were not. As long as all details are disclosed I don't mind heat treats out of house, just so long as its to one of the masters.

Sometimes collaborations can give us some really amazing results.

Kevin
 
Sole Authorship vs. Custom vs. Handmade vs. Mid-Tech vs. Production vs. Mass Production etc. is indeed a sticky wicket if you get carried away with definitions.

Indeed. I make custom cabinets for clients from time to time (much cheaper to buy from the big box stores...). When I make one, I go down and buy the correct plywood type, size, grade, and veneer for the carcass, interior, etc. I hand pick the boards to plane down, size and sand for rails, stiles, door frames, etc. I cut the edge treatments on the trims to give the wood dimension, and cut every single part to fit, all from my own design.

I assemble all of my cut parts, fill and sand as necessary. I apply a colorant (stain or dye) if requested, then clear coat with a brush or spray applied finish, mixed for the project, or use a high performance hard enamel instead.

I would expect nothing less from someone claiming they made a handmade knife to be anything less. All parts fabricated under their direct, hands on cutting, grinding, sizing, fitting, staining of scales, fit, finish, and polish.

As is the case with most American "handmade" knives sold en masse, they are hand assembled using dedicated machines from mountains of stamped parts.

To continue with that analogy, there are those that buy KD cabinets (KD = knockdown) in a box and assemble the pieces. All fine and good. But like a kit, their cabinet is far from being handmade, it is only hand assembled. Yes, they can spend more time on fit and finish than a large factory might, but still, the parts were in the box. They didn't assemble the materials from a lumber yard, nor did they cut all the pieces, profile the trim parts, fit hardware or perform any of the other hand processes.

Constructing items from fabricated parts makes things hand assembled, not handmade. To drive this point home, you can buy a Rough Rider kit (and others) that has all the parts in it to make a folding knife as seen in the CASE video from "How it's Made". Parts are pretty close to the finish size, all holes punched, and pins roughly sized. These parts came off their assembly line. So if you take that pile of parts and make a knife, does it make that knife handmade? Not to me. Nor does it make the same knife made in the factory by a guy that assembles pieces all day long as his job a knife maker. He is an assembler. He may be a great assembler and turn out a great finished product, but he isn't a knife maker.

As always, just my 0.02.

Robert
 
^ Absolutely agree with you there Robert.

I'd want to include heat treatment in that definition. As we all know, the heat treatment is just as important as the steel used. Without a good HT, even a perfectly symmetrical, awesomely swedged blade is no better than fancy letter opener.

The problem is that farming out blades to be HT'd is a commonly accepted practice. I'd like to point though out that the masters (Bill Bagwell, Tony Bose, Don Fogg, et al.) HT their blades themselves.

- Christian

That is a great point to keep in mind, Christian. I am not commenting on the "masters" in my words to follow but, to play the Devil's advocate in a way, I would actually prefer "young" makers do send the parts to a true master rather than customers spending lots of money on so so knives to support their learning experience. I don't say that in a hurtful way or in a way that I don't want to help "young" makers, but say you have a maker that has a real talent for everything else and they haven't mastered heat treat yet...? You could look at it in the same way for a company that may send off parts to a true master. I would prefer that over a mediocre in house heat treat, personally.

I do completely agree with you, but your comment sparked a few thoughts.

What would bother me is if a maker marketed knives as completely in house and they were not. As long as all details are disclosed I don't mind heat treats out of house, just so long as its to one of the masters.

Sometimes collaborations can give us some really amazing results.

Kevin

I think good heat-treatment is VERY important, and a real master knife maker should be as accomplished at it as he (or she) is at grinding a blade, but unfortunately, in my experience, many small cutlers neglect the importance of HT or simply do it badly. It doesn't tend to get discussed as much as steel type, but as Christian says, it's just as important. Personally, I'm a fan of vacuum-hardening, but that requires real specialist (and expensive) equipment and experience. Given a choice, I'd rather have top-class HT by a specialist company than something that's hit and miss. The key as with any of this is honesty, and people being open about what they do. I don't understand why some of the larger companies are calling hand-assembled, machine-ground knives hand-crafted or handmade? They're not custom makers, they should just be honest and say that they produce a good product that's well made, but that their manufacturing proccess allows them to keep their prices relatively low, and that if customers want a truly handmade knife they'll have to pay a lot more for it.
 
I want to clarify that I have no problem with a maker sending out blades to be HT'd by someone better qualified. As Clint Eastwood so aptly put it, "A man's gotta know his limitations." A blade HT'd by Paul Bos isn't inferior in any way. Plus it takes time and money for someone to acquire the necessary experience and equipment to do it properly. All else being equal, if the maker does everything else right you will have a very good knife in your hands.

But, as a maker masters more of his craft, I would hope that learning to get the most out of a knife by heat treating the blade is a goal I hope he sets for himself. That's where the magic happens, and even long established makers like Ed Fowler continue to strive to expand their understanding of steel and get every last bit of performance out of it by tinkering with their HT formulas.

- Christian
 
I agree with you completely, Christian and you did not need to clarify to me. I understood how you differentiated your comments and knowing you value a good heat treat it only makes sense you would want a knife with the best. :)

I think I took the conversation in a direction that had less to do with "what do you consider handmade" and more to do "what would you find acceptable".
 
All good points, fellas. For me, hand forging(by the maker or a well known damascus forger) and heat treatment done by the forger or maker are very important to me when I purchase a "handmade knife".


Kris
 
It seems the consensus so far is that a knife-maker MUST either a blade-smith or blade-maker then??

I guess I'm just a handle-slap-er-on-er after all then!
 
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Handmade. My own design, success, and shortcomings. That's handmade to me. Maybe it's a spiritual thing, where the maker becomes part of the made, but when it's handmade, you know.

As just an aside, there will be more out of the shop soon. I finally ordered more steel tonight!! An equal end and a swell end and a soddie for Rolf are on the list. :D
 

Thanks a lot Art, very kind of you. Fascinating film. I really like my Case knives, but as I think is very obvious, they're a very long way from "handcrafted", even less so than I'd thought actually. And here was me criticising the Sheffield cutlers for machine-grinding the blades! It must be hard for some of the custom makers to stomach, seeing the terms 'handmade' and 'handcrafted' abused so often.
 
To me,hand forged in a bellow fed coal fire is the epitome of hand made...,,,As i dont have a forge or the skills to use one,grinders,old l6 saw blades,broken axe handles and bits of stag is how i do (hand made)????....I know they arent pretty !....neither are they wallhangers... FES

Kazak004.jpg
 
To me,hand forged in a bellow fed coal fire is the epitome of hand made...,,,As i dont have a forge or the skills to use one,grinders,old l6 saw blades,broken axe handles and bits of stag is how i do (hand made)????....I know they arent pretty !....neither are they wallhangers... FES

Kazak004.jpg

Looks Mr Jackson has been keeping you well employed Fes :D

Great work, love the two on the right.
 
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