what do you do when you screwed up your HT

Joined
Oct 27, 2008
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so i finally got my first knife all shaped (out of 1080 steel). i tried to heat treat it (with charcoal) and the tip to about 1 inch back got nice and hard but the rest of the blade is still soft. I let it sit in the middle of some charcoal until i touched a magnet to it and it seemed to not attract then put it into some oil, the oil smoked but did not light (that i could see as it was day time) did i not let the steel get hot enough? use too little oil to quench (i used about half a quart of peanut oil in a glass jar)? or something else?


also what should i do now? should i try to anneal it then try again? try to heat treat it agian right away? through it away and start again? or something else?
 
I would re heat treat it. Um i think you need lots more oil to quench a blade in and i don't know if peanut oil will quench it fast enough. did you heat the oil first to around 120 deg. I use at least 1/2 to 1 gal minimum of oil when i quench. you don't always get flames when you quench. if the mass of the knife is enough then you will but i don't like flames licking my hand so i try and avoid it by quenching the whole blade. One thing to remember is that when you pull thew blade out to check with a magnet, is to check it in a few places to make sure it is all up to temp. then put it back in the fire to warm back up. because with the amount of time it takes to check it and then quench you could have lost to much temp in the blade. with 1080 and 1095 every single second out of the fire is very important. you must quench it as soon as you can when you pull it out of the fire. i do it in one motion and the quench tank is right under my forge and i pull the blade out and straight into the tank. now some times you have to be careful with the forge lighting the smoke as it is very very flammable. I think first you need more oil and make sure its warmed up to 120 deg. and re heat your blade after checking it with the magnet.
 
ok I'll go pick up some atf from the store. the oil was warm but i'm not too sure what temperature it was. i didn't think to put it back into the fire after checking, it seems obvious now that you mention it :D.

all right time to try again.
 
ok I'll go pick up some atf from the store. the oil was warm but i'm not too sure what temperature it was. i didn't think to put it back into the fire after checking, it seems obvious now that you mention it :D.

all right time to try again.

I have never used ATF but I would use mineral oil from a vet supply place. it is quite thin and works good. I have allways wondered how break fluid would work.
 
I have never used ATF but I would use mineral oil from a vet supply place. it is quite thin and works good. I have allways wondered how break fluid would work.

ATF works fine. Make sure if your using a 5160 Chevy spring to get the right ATF. Dont use Ford ATF on 5160 Chevy spring. All Kidding aside. Just use plenty enough to cover the whole blade.
 
The typical hardening temperature is about 75 F above the Curie temperature [non-magnetic point]. You most likely didn't get it hot enough .
 
i picked up some atf and a bigger container for it, and stoped using the crappy charcoal i was trying to use, the apartment downstairs was being remodeled so i picked out a bunch of scrap wood flooring and made a fire with the help of some old lady it took a while but it finnally got non-magnetic put it back in for a minute and i quenched it. made a few mistakes while quenching it (it's really easy to make mistakes while making knives and/or being excited :D ) but after i washed all the atf off my file skated on the blade so i think i did it alright, but there will be plenty of room for improvement next time, but as i read on here once if you don't find out what doesn't work you'll never find what does.
 
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Glad you got it harder this time. One of the problems with your heat source may be that it sounds like you are just building a plain fire. It needs to be a hotter fire than just some charcoal in a grill, or some burning wood. You need to pipe some air into the bottom to make the fire hotter. A very simple forge can be made from an old truck wheel rim, brake dru, wash tub, etc..

Here are some simple plans to give you the idea::
http://www.anvilfire.com/index.php?...m&titleName=anvilfire.com Blacksmithing FAQs

http://64.176.180.203/washtubforge.htm

Will Levitt posted this a couple months ago:
.... my first forge was an old barbecue grill I found on the side of the road, it was one of the rectangular shaped ones. I made the clay/sand refractory and made a "v" shaped lining. The air pipe ( called a twyere) was a piece of 1 1/2" black pipe that had 1/4" holes drilled every 30mm in the part that would be under the fire. I put an end cap on the end opposite of the air input end. Make sure the pipe extends out at least a foot or more past the "forge" body so you won't melt the air supply hose. Use some old dryer vent hose or wherever you can find ( PVC pipe?) to connect the pipe to the air blower. You can use a hair dryer or something similar for a blower. When you put in the adobe, just cover up any extra air holes that you don't need. You can make the adobe fire pit the size you need that way.....
( I edited some of Will's post to make it clearer)

Some people have made an adobe forge in a hole in the ground. It will have to be re-made each time that way, so making it in some sort of tub, wheel rim,old BBQ, etc. will be a better idea.


As you can see, the basic principal is a depression in some sort of refractory clay. The air is piped under the charcoal ( bets to use real charcoal, not briquettes) and this makes the fire hotter. The heat is regulated by how much air is piped in. An old electric hair dryer will be enough for a small forge.
There are many recipes for adobe, but the basic one is clay, sand, and ash - mixed into a thick mud. The clay is the type of sticky grey stuff you find in a river bank or a big hole dug in a field. The starting mix is 1/2 of clay,and 1/2 of sand, add to this mix about 1/10 of of ash. Mix with enough water to make a very thick mud. Spread this about 8cm thick to make the forge lining, and let it dry well.Build the first fire small, and without any air from the blower. This will let the adobe bake and get it ready to use .

回头见
Stacy
 
wow thanks for the info on the forge. i'll be moving in july so i may have to wait until then to build something. would a large thick earthenware or ceramic plant pot sunk into the ground work? or would that shatter under the heat?

i think actually the only reason my fire got hot enough was my fire was the weird way it was built let a lot of air get at it through the bottom when i fanned it and i kept adding wood so the bottom layer was basically charcoal burning with a normal wood fire on top (not intend but dumb luck)
 
Yes, a large clay pot should work fine. Somewhere I have a thread saved for a clay pot forge (Similar to a coffee can forge.).
Stacy
 
i picked up some atf and a bigger container for it, and stoped using the crappy charcoal i was trying to use, the apartment downstairs was being remodeled so i picked out a bunch of scrap wood flooring and made a fire with the help of some old lady it took a while but it finnally got non-magnetic put it back in for a minute and i quenched it. made a few mistakes while quenching it (it's really easy to make mistakes while making knives and/or being excited :D ) but after i washed all the atf off my file skated on the blade so i think i did it alright, but there will be plenty of room for improvement next time, but as i read on here once if you don't find out what doesn't work you'll never find what does.

I have always used Kingfords cowboy Lump Charcoal. Lowes carries it. 7.00 a bag. I use about a half bag everytime I heat treat. True Value does too. It has no chemicals.
You can always make your own.
when you wood catchs fire and is burning really put put it out. Let it dry. You know have charcoal.
 
Blacktoe,
I am not sure how many Lowe's stores they have in Qingdao, China.
Stacy
 
none but we do have a servery neutered home depot :D

I can probably find some natural charcoal i bought some 2 years ago for a BBQ here.
 
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