What do you look for in a B&T or EDC fixed blade?

[bludog2]

Drop points hard to beat for everyday use, and for processing game, large and small.

 

[Horsewright]

I hadn't even considered bolsters, but I do love he look of them on my hunters. I've always admired your little blades Dave and appreciate your comments. That copper bolster is a hotty.

Thanks. Give your back end of the handle a little drop. Not so straight. It will fit a wider variety of hands with the drop.

 

[cbach8tw]

A lot of good ideas here, I am still not sure if you are after any type of trailing point or upswept skinner. Anything like a the Old Timer sharp finger? Just not a drop point? I do get you trying to get maximum belly surface for skinning, you mentioned a recurve to enhance cutting, correct? The Jessmuk mentioned a symmetrical sweeping radius curve. I think it will be hard to get that in a 3 inch or under blade length, maybe in a 3.5. I also have a cool small Anza, with a good handle, and a small blade. I think I am getting the direction you may be going, I am a slow learner.

 

[Creaky Bones]

The knife that fills that role for me at the moment is an LT Wright small northern hunter in Aeb-l (pictured with my Native 5 salt). It’s not what I was looking for, but when I got it I knew it was perfect for the role. I will probably make a kydex sheath for it at some point, but as offered with the stock leather it’s an awesome little knife.

The edc/b&t knife I’ve wanted for a while is one of Scott Gossman’s ULPs (ultra light Polaris) and I’d like that in aeb-l as well. I’m really enjoying that steel. It’s the middle blade in the pic I blatantly stole from a fellow Gossman knife enthusiast. Above it is a full sized Polaris.

 

[Sonnydaze]

As a user I prefer a full flat grind. As a maker a hollowgrind is much easier to do well. A small drop point works very well for me. Huge on cross draw horizontal sheath. These two blade styles have been my personal EDCs for some years now. Both knife styles are a little over 5.25" oal.

I'm huge on natural materials for handles going with horn or stag but have also carried wood handled knives. I do like a bolster. The front part of the handle is your weak link in knife construction. A bolster allows this area to be sealed better. Bout it I guess.

Hi, friend, it's nice to see your daily carries...nice work, sir. I've had your knives and your leather and wear some of your leather every day...none better. I am also a big fan of cross-draw, and wear a 7" fixed OAL along with my clipped folder. The fixed gets a lot more work than the folder...easier and quicker access.

Dave, I see that you prefer a full flat grind for your own use, and believe that it affords equal cutting resistance all the way up to the spine. Which is fine for thicker materials...
However, due to my sedentary life-style, I'm the MOST CASUAL cutter of all times. Most of my cuts involve thin materials, for which the hollow-grind presents a thinner cutting blade thickness about halfway up to the spine. That thinner blade thickness, I would presume, means less force used in cutting materials up to about 1/2" thick..and thus I favor a hollow-ground blade whenever possible.
Please respond and tell me why you might disagree.
best to you, Dave.
Don

 

[bikerector]

A lot of good ideas here, I am still not sure if you are after any type of trailing point or upswept skinner. Anything like a the Old Timer sharp finger? Just not a drop point? I do get you trying to get maximum belly surface for skinning, you mentioned a recurve to enhance cutting, correct? The Jessmuk mentioned a symmetrical sweeping radius curve. I think it will be hard to get that in a 3 inch or under blade length, maybe in a 3.5. I also have a cool small Anza, with a good handle, and a small blade. I think I am getting the direction you may be going, I am a slow learner.

I actually mentioned the sharpfinger as part of the inspiration behind the 1st one, but with the sweeping belly to make almost a blend of a skinner/nessmuk/CBK and a sharpfinger spine and tip. Getting all of it crammed into the small space is becoming the challenging piece, on what I'm currently working on. I kind of want the mini-skinner thing for me and then look at different B&T/EDC that's more based on what people want/like/need/recommend than the flowing one I have in the drawings. The drawings are more just because I want something a little different than what I have or have had.

Anza has a lot of interesting looking stuff and I have been looking at a lot of small knives to see what others are doing. Part of it is to see what's out there that's working but also to make sure I'm not just designing something that everyone is already doing, in which case it would just make sense to buy one of their knives.

Ultimately, it's fun to think through the concepts and spend my free time working through the process instead of playing games or whatever to waste some time, especially with winter coming along and not having as much daylight to workout outside during the days. I also have some very time-consuming after work activities coming to a close in a few months so I'll need to keep myself busy with a project or 10 of some kind.

 

[bikerector]

Hi, friend, it's nice to see your daily carries...nice work, sir. I've had your knives and your leather and wear some of your leather every day...none better. I am also a big fan of cross-draw, and wear a 7" fixed OAL along with my clipped folder. The fixed gets a lot more work than the folder...easier and quicker access.

Dave, I see that you prefer a full flat grind for your own use, and believe that it affords equal cutting resistance all the way up to the spine. Which is fine for thicker materials...
However, due to my sedentary life-style, I'm the MOST CASUAL cutter of all times. Most of my cuts involve thin materials, for which the hollow-grind presents a thinner cutting blade thickness about halfway up to the spine. That thinner blade thickness, I would presume, means less force used in cutting materials up to about 1/2" thick..and thus I favor a hollow-ground blade whenever possible.
Please respond and tell me why you might disagree.
best to you, Dave.
Don

Don, if you haven't tried a full-height hollow grind, I highly recommend trying to find one for a try. I've had 2 knives with it and was blown away with how well they slice, but there aren't many models with it out there. One I should never have traded away, an AG Russell Brute. It's been a few years but I think it was one of the ATS-34 models. If I only new then, what I know now...

 

[Horsewright]

Aw heck that's really the only type of hollowgrind I do.

I'll answer Don's question in the morning. Got four more to buff and then thirty to sharpen yet this afternoon.

 

[cbach8tw]

Aw heck that's really the only type of hollowgrind I do.

I'll answer Don's question in the morning. Got four more to buff and then thirty to sharpen yet this afternoon.

Love those knives, Dave, especially the Sonoran Belt knife. Can you tell me how you like the CZ gun? Caliber and double stack mag?

 

[Creaky Bones]

I actually mentioned the sharpfinger as part of the inspiration behind the 1st one, but with the sweeping belly to make almost a blend of a skinner/nessmuk/CBK and a sharpfinger spine and tip. Getting all of it crammed into the small space is becoming the challenging piece, on what I'm currently working on. I kind of want the mini-skinner thing for me and then look at different B&T/EDC that's more based on what people want/like/need/recommend than the flowing one I have in the drawings. The drawings are more just because I want something a little different than what I have or have had.

Anza has a lot of interesting looking stuff and I have been looking at a lot of small knives to see what others are doing. Part of it is to see what's out there that's working but also to make sure I'm not just designing something that everyone is already doing, in which case it would just make sense to buy one of their knives.

Ultimately, it's fun to think through the concepts and spend my free time working through the process instead of playing games or whatever to waste some time, especially with winter coming along and not having as much daylight to workout outside during the days. I also have some very time-consuming after work activities coming to a close in a few months so I'll need to keep myself busy with a project or 10 of some kind.

I picked up this used Sargent on a different forum. It was sold as a blank, then the person who I bought it from tried to do an epoxied jute wrapped leather handle. I replaced it with some natural canvas micarta. It’s sort of a blunt nosed sharp finger design. Handy little blade.

 

[bikerector]

I picked up this used Sargent on a different forum. It was sold as a blank, then the person who I bought it from tried to do an epoxied jute wrapped leather handle. I replaced it with some natural canvas micarta. It’s sort of a blunt nosed sharp finger design. Handy little blade.

I like that a lot!

 

[Horsewright]

Hi, friend, it's nice to see your daily carries...nice work, sir. I've had your knives and your leather and wear some of your leather every day...none better. I am also a big fan of cross-draw, and wear a 7" fixed OAL along with my clipped folder. The fixed gets a lot more work than the folder...easier and quicker access.

Dave, I see that you prefer a full flat grind for your own use, and believe that it affords equal cutting resistance all the way up to the spine. Which is fine for thicker materials...
However, due to my sedentary life-style, I'm the MOST CASUAL cutter of all times. Most of my cuts involve thin materials, for which the hollow-grind presents a thinner cutting blade thickness about halfway up to the spine. That thinner blade thickness, I would presume, means less force used in cutting materials up to about 1/2" thick..and thus I favor a hollow-ground blade whenever possible.
Please respond and tell me why you might disagree.
best to you, Dave.
Don

Thanks for the kind words Don!

So why do I have a preference for a full flat grind? Well I really think that Don hit it on the head with just how the knife is used day to day. For what I do a FFG seems to work the best. Busy as I am in the shop (almost everyday is Christmas with supplies coming in) and running the ranch, cutting open feed sacks hay bales etc, a FFG just does what I want it to do a little better. So in this pic the bottom knife in ramshorn is my own personal EDC. It had a grinding error I wasn't able to fix (see that divot in front of the plunge). This stock that I ground these knives out of was very thin, .050, yielding an extremely slicey knife. I'm pretty sure I couldn't hollow grind that thickness. Even at a FFG I didn't think I had enough meat to fix that little divot so I kept that one. It is one of my Gordo, (chubby boy in slang Spanish around here) patterns in 26C3 a new high carbon steel for me that can get really hard. These are at 64 RC. The other two are Vaquero models. I have kept switiching between these two patterns for some years now as my own personal EDCs.

So far I'm REALLY liking this steel!! Prior to this Gordo I wore this knife, the first stainless Vaquero (AEB-L at 63 RC):

Prior to that knife I carried this one for several years:

Its the only hollow ground Gordo pattern I ever did. Carried it for a couple of years. Hollow grinding is a method of taking thicker steel and making it be able to slice like thinner steel. I'm a big advocate of ya don't use an axe to slice tomatoes school of thought. Thinner always out cuts thicker. I can take a piece of .118-.138 inch stock and get it pretty dang slicey by hollow grinding it. This experimental knife was 5/32nd A2 at 62RC. Now 5/32nd is really thick for a little guy but I was able to make it cut like a thinner piece of steel by hollow grinding it. However I was never fond of it. I love A2 in bigger badder knives but I don't think it brings anything extra to a little knife this size. Like my current Gordo this one was a reject. Notice that somehow I have two different mosaic pins in the bolster. Tricky, especially since I buy only one kind so I DON"T have that happen. I carried this knife for a couple of years. It worked but the same knife FFG out of thinner steel would have suited ME better. And I really do think thats it, suits me.

Prior to that knife I carried the first Vaquero Ultralite (this pic isn't it, this is a later one):

So those Vaqueros above are just this blade shape with handles and bolsters stuck on em. I carried this knife for 3.5 years as an EDC. It handled everything I threw at it. I mean certainly not your first choice if ya got an elk down but I make a knife for that. Day in day out EDC knife chores it shined. Just wore it out, I liked it so much. So enough history. Objectively I have carried other hollow ground knives for years prior to making my own knives. I was under the impression (folklore), that hollow grinds would be sharper than a flat grind. Now thousands of knives later (and thats thousands of FFGs and thousands of hollow grinds), for what I do I prefer a FFG and know that one can be just as sharp as the other. That has to do with the grinding and the skill of the maker. My preference for a FFG isn't huge though. I'd probably get through life just fine with one of my Coyotes.

Hope this helps explain my thoughts Don.

 

[crumpet8]

Thanks. Give your back end of the handle a little drop. Not so straight. It will fit a wider variety of hands with the drop.

Hey Dave, great work! I’m also in the camp of “one day I’ll own one of Dave’s knives” in the meantime I was wondering if you’d share some experience with finger guards and how protruded or deep they should be for use when it gets slippery. I certainly appreciate them and is a design feature or lack of that stops me getting some otherwise beautiful knives (like the bark river bird and trout).

I guess it’s subjective to how one uses their knife, but maybe you’ve made and developed enough knives for a variety of people now you’ve got some insight into it?

 

[Sonnydaze]

Dave, I figured you would answer my question, but not to the Depth that you did, but I'm grateful. I learned a lot, and you've shown me a new steel.
I was jolted by the 0.050" stock that you used. Measured some of my paring knives and they go from 0.040" to 0.080"...so that's quite a surprise. I guess that fits your needs just fine since the blades are short, and thus retain their "stiffness" and strength.
I am grateful for the amount of pics and technical explanation of what you carry and the physical parameters... The blade-lengths and grips actually seem to be rather short, (e.g. the Gordo), in contrast with my normal fixed carry of a ~3.1" blade and a ~4" grip-length. However, you design and fabricate what works for you, on the ranch, on a daily basis. And, your entire line of knife models reflects a similar vision..
The California Coyote and the Paisano models draw my interest...
I'll have to give that some thought.
Darned interesting stuff, Dave.. thanks very much.
BTW, that Ruger Blackhawk is a beauty. I have a pair of Old Model 3-screw Blackhawks, 4 5/8" bbl, 45 Colt...both nearly unfired, early 1970's vintage...that I value highly.
Don

 

[Horsewright]

cbach8tw

Thank you sir! I love that CZ and have carried it a lot since I got it. Bought it from a friend of mine. He writes for lots of different gun magazines and this was his personal EDC gun. Arthritis in his thumb was making hitting the mag release difficult and he moved to something else. We did some trading too. Built him this belt for this buckle he had and then the rest in cash:

Its a 9mm and unbelievably smooth to shoot. Almost a 1911 trigger feel to it and it mitigates the recoil very well. Its a double stack and 10 and one here in Calif, although there is a 14 round extended mag that most of the rest of the world can get. I've not had it very long but I've had several friends shoot it and they have all said the same thing in the same order. 1) Wow thats smooth. 2) Thats really accurate, if you miss its your fault. 3) How much? This version has some uniqueness to it that the safety is a decocker but instead of completely decocking the pistol it goes into a firing pin blocked half cock. As that picture above shows. So most CZs (and I've got a couple trillion zillion rounds through a CZ 75), can be carried as a double action or as a cocked and locked single action. This one splits the difference and its half cocked when carrying, so squeezing that first shot off, the hammer doesn't have far to travel so it is much more similar in feel to the trigger pull of the rest of the rounds in the magazine. It might be close to the perfect gun.

C crumpet8

Thanks! I really do like something to prevent my hand from coming into contact with the blade. Whether its a deep heel to the blade and a thinner handle area almost a finger groove just before it as in my Gordo, Sonoran Hunter, Buckaroo/Cowboy etc:

Gordo, Sonroan Hunter then a Cowboy (Buckaroo is same knife only in damascus):

Or an actual finger guard such as on my Sonoran Camp Knife, Tapadero/Sonoran Belt Knife, California Coyote/Coyote etc, pictured in that order:

In fact all my models even steak knives and kitchen knives will have one or the other. Most of my customers are working cowboys, buckaroos, ranchers etc. We carry a knife not only for the obvious reasons but because they are also a safety item for us. Ya have ropes around livestock and people and bad things can happen. We call these "wrecks" and I have received many an order the day after a wreck. One guy was loading ten horses in a trailer in Montana. They slipped cause the trailer floor was icy and some are now upside down flailing around and have him pinned against the trailer wall. Ya have 1200 lbs pulling on a lead rope knot and they can be hard to untie. He told me I had a pocket knife but had my chaps on and couldn't get to it with my chaps over my pockets. I need one of your little belt knives, yesterday! I have heard this many many times. I personally have cut 3 horses out of bad deals mostly about how other folks had tied them up, cut a pack horse out of the pack one time and when my now 27 year old son was learning to rope when he was like 3 or 4 I had to cut his rope to get him out of a wreck that was gonna happen but hadn't yet. Many working cowboys I know actually carry two or three knives but not because they are "knife" guys but because they want to be able to get to it if/when a wreck happens. At these times you don't have the opportunity to surgically place your hand on the knife handle, ya grab and go for sure. Been there, done that, got the t shirt. Cutting up the rescuer is bad for business. Same in more day to day situations, often I'm grabbing my knife one handed with out looking for whatever reason I need it for. Nice not to go and get stitched up.

Here's a whole nuther thought. Retention in a sheath is critical in our horseback world. Ya can't be chasing a wild cow down some mountainside and jump a downed tree or jump a creek or ride a snorty one and be losing your knife all the time. In this pic of two oak carved sheaths ya can see the upper row of stitching on the bottom of each sheath. It outlines the shape and edge of the welt. The welt forms a "cam" that the knife has to ride up and over to get into the sheath or out of the sheath.

If someone loses one of my knives the first thing we ask is did ya have it all the way in and most of the time the answer is no. Ya can hear em and feel em go "klunk" when the knife passes that cam. Watch this little few second video to see what I mean:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BtKcsUfjAeM/

Well what gives that knife that kind of retention is the shape of the knife that we've already talked about as a safety item. A very straight knife without a finger guard or deep heel is very difficult to get decent retention on if not impossible without doing some other tricks. True story. Our best friends live across thew way from us. Cara and Tyler are often over, we ride together and they help on the ranch, we have dinner together three four times a week sometimes. We were riding yesterday and Nichole, (my wife) was talking about a customer she'd spoke with the day before that had lost his knife when he was riding a "broncy" colt. The first thing Nichole asked him was did ya have the knife all the way into the sheath Leroy? Well Miss Nichole....... So we were talking about this and realized Cara started it all when she got bucked off of Bonita while we were doing some roping out at the ranch.

Then me for the first time in 15 years and I use to work and ride some bad ones times back, in some of those days, Ol George, ya know George that falls a sleep while he's working, but he bucked me off too.

See he really does fall asleep when he's working, he don't get bothered much. Can't really hold it against him though. Nichole and I'd been out on a ride. We were coming back and saw that they were home across the way (they have real jobs they got to go to). Well their dog Sophia came running at 70 mph which is her normal speed as we came up across the creek bank at their place to say howdy. Difference was Sophia had just had surgery and was wearing this bright blue, huge, inflatable donut thingy, around her neck to prevent her licking her stitches. She appeared out of the brush at George's feet at 70 mph and George said DEUCES! I'm outta here!!!!!! Two jumps and splat, the splat being me hitting the ground. Like my son said when I told him the story Ain't that a beech, all that oxygen out there and ya can't find none. Still can't really hold that one against George. Well then Nichole got bucked off of Josie:

Now it was Nichole's fault, she allowed Josie to get "rimfired". She allowed a roped calf to come up her left side going faster than she was going, while the rope is dallied to the saddle horn on the right side. So the rope is coming up hard around the horses butt or even up under the tail. So ya turn and face the calf to your right real fast, you get rid of the rope, ya mash the gas and go faster than the calf or the horse, most of whom really, really, really, really, dislike being rimfired, will do all of the above and more, way faster than you can process. Jump , jump, jump, splat. Now Nichole came off a week later almost to the minute from me, weird. Been about 15 years for her too. Then finally Tyler come off of Dusty Rose:

We were over practicing roping at another friends who has a Smarty. A Smarty is a roping dummy sled that can be pulled behind a quad and give ya great, consistent practice. Tyler got too close and his heel loop was too big and he didn't stop Dusty when he threw. The loop caught the heels of the Smarty but Dusty also ran into the loop with her front feet. Dusty objected to being roped at the same time as the Smarty. Jump, jump, splat. So why am I relating these cowboy stories that happened all in a space of about a month? All four of us got bucked off pretty hard. All four of us were wearing my knives and Nichole, a pistol too in one of our pancake holsters. None of us lost our knives nor did Nichole lose her pistol, (but man did it need a field stripping). Point is those safety features of the knife are also what gives you that kind of retention and its needed in our deal.

Sonnydaze

Ya bet buddy! I easily sell 10 small knives if not more to every larger knife and when I say larger I mean over 7" oal which to most around here isn't a large knife. I think that design plays an important part in making a small knife comfortable in large hands. Ya see that my designs have a handle that turns down at the back and I have found that this feature will make the same knife fit a huge variety of hands as mentioned before. Nichole who is rather small and I who am rather not and have huge knife maker hands, carry the same knife model. Cause it works and is comfortable. Again not the first choice for a downed elk but really in EDC situations how long do you use a knife at a time? Thought ya might like some of these pics. These were actual knives and stock thickness just if front of the handle from a batch I was working on a few months back:

Ain't nothing better than cool ol guns for sure!

 

[Sonnydaze]

Dave, thanx for the real-world talk about knives and sheath cam designs that hold onto the knife in rough going. Getting thrown at your age (smirk) has got to be rather disconcerting at best....and with your wife looking on?...
(I refuse to talk about my age or lack of horsemanship ability.)
That last pic that shows over twenty of your knives? Wow...a good thing for my wallet that I wasn't there, or some of those would have to come home with me...beautiful work, and I am getting to be a new-found believer in your short and thin knife logic.
We're gonna havta get together... How do you just pick ONE? It's like potato chips...
darn...you do nice work...
Don

 

[Horsewright]

Your welcome. Nuther funny thing about all four of us coming off our ponies.... we all witnessed it happen each time, still kinda weird. Anyhoo. Yeah I work in batches all the time, for instance just finished 31 knives (all sold), and working on the sheaths right now. Starting another batch here shortly of 42.

 

[bikerector]

I know it's not been quite a week but I want to thank everyone for their input. I think I've seen enough people around to know how much weight to throw to their preferences and insight, especially when you have a man like Dave who specializes in little knives. Working on the big belly designs for my personal desire and then working with the information provided here and in other B&T related threads (picture thread is a gold mine too), and hopefully will have something to work with that people could like and enjoy but is different that what's already out there in some manner. Don't want to create more of the same you can already get from people like Dave or from manufacturers.

Cheers!

 

[Filthyj24]

Light weight and a good sheath.

 

[bikerector]

Light weight and a good sheath.

How do you like the quiet carry? That was one i was interested in as a Kayak camping knife.