What do you look for in a "new" maker?

Kohai999

Kohai999

Second Degree Cutter
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Jul 15, 2003
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By "new" I mean maybe not well known, or highly collectible, at this point.

With the relative negativity (but truth) in the "Dealbreakers" thread, it would be nice to suggest some things that we would look for, to make the sale.

I'll start:

1. Unique shape, something that might pull common elements together in a different way. Dusty Moulton used to make knives that were like Ron Gastons', but he started doing some really unique shapes, that nailed it for me.

2. Good price/quality ratio. Generally speaking, not looking for "rough" or "rugged" appearing knives(this is geared towards those that are not looking to make a rustic piece from the onset, a la Daniel Winkler). As been said before, just making a knife out of damascus is not an entitlement to an automatic $300.00 price jump anymore. Value is important. By that it is nice to be able to decide to use, or keep said knife pristine. Many, many collectors blanch at using anything that costs over $600.00, so that is "maybe, maybe not" a good price ceiling to think about.

3. Good finish. Been said before, but it is better to have a nice clean 600 grit finish, than a fish hooky 1200 grit finish. Also grind lines-please make them crisp, rather than washed out. It is a great sign that you are on the right track!

4. Affable personality. You don't have to be P.T. Barnum or Wild Bill Hickock, but it is nice if you are able to answer questions, and explain to a prospective client what you will do, what you can do, and what you won't do, and why.

5. This one is personal. I really like to see carbon tangs covered on a fixed blade, either with traditional western handle materials(wood, ivory for those that like it...) or cord wrapped. I really don't care for carbon anything that contacts the hand, other than the blade on a folder, damascus bolsters being the exception. As we know, all carbon steels rust, and even if it is not a show piece, still nice to be able to use it, and not worry about the handle rusting on you.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Although I've been making a few knives on and off again for about 15 years, I still consider myself a new maker. This is because I have not actively pursued selling my knives, except when it was requested by a friend or acquaintance. I will be keeping a close watch on this thread, so that I can understand what people are looking for. I will still make knives that please me, but will be able to see what is important to someone that is considering purchasing one of my creations.

Thanks for starting this thread, as I'm sure that I'll learn quite a lot from it!

Scott (Ickie) Ickes
 
Well, I deal a lot of knives from new names, and I am always looking for new makers from my country to introduce to the international market. What I look for when I select a new member to my website... besides what have already been said above...

1) Overal quality: this guy must be around an year or so, with constant quality and showing improvements from knife to knife.

2) Regularity: the market is not interested, and either am I, in a maker that presents 10 to 20 knives of an outstanding quality and then disapears. :thumbdn:

3) Easy to negociate and work with.

4) And personaly I also like to work with people who take the business to a level of comitment and personal chalenge that will drive their careers up and up.
 
I look for makers that have developed a recognizable style. If I look at a Knight or DesRosiers knife I immediately know who the maker is. I like that.

A good price to quality ratio is very important, but I don't look for the knives to be underpriced.

Fit and finish have to be of high caliber.

The maker has to have the ability, and desire to work with a variety of materials. If a maker tells me that he will only work in a certain guard or handle material, and I don't like that material, the deal will end right there. With steel I am more apt to have the maker work with what he is comfortable with.

Friendly is good.

Though this point is the same for new and established makers, if new makers are reading this, communcation is key. If a maker is poor at communicating, I will go so far as to cancel an order. This is of maximum importance to me.

Steven, on that last point, if the knife is going to have a carbon blade and full tang, I will only be interested if the tang is done with a stainless steel frame. I don't like the staining that comes from handling carbon steel.
 
I am still very new to custom knives, right now I only own 7-8.

The things that I try to consider when researching a new maker are:

Materials used.
Price in relation to those materials.
Personality of the maker.
Reputation on forums like this or word of mouth.
 
Steven, thank you for this thread this is something that i feel is needed. I have been trying to talk to various collectors and the one thing i have found is that the pointers the collectors have given me have been just as important and provoked either a change or an improvement in every knife that i have made.
 
A few things I look for in a new maker.

1. Fit and finish. This is a given.
2. I look at who the maker considers mentors/learned from.
Ex...Mike O and Kit. Bob Doggett and SRJ. They may not turn into the next Carson or Johnson but they have a head start on the rest of the pack.
3. I like for them to have a sense of history. I've seen several new makers claim they were the first to do this or that or that so and so copied this from them. It's more than likely that Randall, Loveless, Moran, Carson, Fisk or Terzoula did it before and better.
4. How they handle screw ups. Every maker is going to mess up on delivery times or let a bad blade out of their shop. How they deal with it speaks volumes.
5. Don't be an a-hole. I won't spend $750 on a knife from somebody I wouldn't want to share a meal with.
6. Value. I want the maker to pay his bills but just because you get some praise on the forums and build a small following doesn't mean you should charge what the masters of your genre do. It's always easier to raise your prices than it is to lower them.

Good thread Mr Garsson. I'm looking forward to the replies.
 
This should be a good thread. I need all of the advice i can get. I started messing around seriously after Blade '05, but had to take off from Jan-Oct of '06 and really kind of started over. I am getting to the point where I am comfortable enough to start offering knives for sale. Mine look better than a number of knives that I saw at a local show recently from guys who have been doing this longer than me. Now I have to make sure that they perform as well or better:D My natural inclination is to lowball on the prices, but I can't go too low because I am buying decent sheaths and I will have $40-45 minimum in each one of those. From a collector/user's perspective, what is a fair price for a forged field grade hunter with a nice piece of wood for a handle from a new maker? I was thinking about $125......80 for the knife and cost for the sheath. My plans for the foreseeable future are to make attractive users, be they hunters, tacticals or big bowies that you cold take hog hunting, so I want to keep the prices reasonable. I agree with Steven. $600 is a good number for "using" I would be much more likely to use the knives that I got really good deals on, even though they are Master Smith knives. Very few of the 20+ customs that I have are not field grade knives, but I just can't bring myself to use some of them. My Fisk Sendero and my 2 Hendricksons being perfect examples. Thanks
 
STeven, this will be a good thread.
I will think more on this before giving my list, however how he handles himself and conducts his business will be towards the top of my list.
 
In no particular order - I may re-edit when I have a bit more time to formulate things coherently:

1) Good QPR. As others have said, the foundation ingredients of fit and finish must be there, and pricing must reflect market position. A new maker way well be doing outstanding work, but if he's pricing his knives in the MS range right out of the box he's probably not getting my money.

2) Style / Aesthetics. I think a recognizable style is a good thing at any level, but for me, for a new maker, it is not critical. People sometimes speak disparagingly of the so-called "ABS 101" pieces that newer makers produce, but you won't find me among them. A new maker who can positivley nail a rendition of a Fisk Sendero or a Crowell bowie will definitely get my attention. Those are also fewer in number than many would imagine.

3) Does the maker have a plan? A maker who is commited to pursuing the craft on a long term basis is one I am more inclined to start working with very early. If they're just in it for kicks and giggles, hey, that's fine - just not on my dime. Makers who have clear goals and have at least considered the means of achieving them will inspire buyer confidence. What shows have they attended / plan to atttend? What accreditations have they achieved / will they pursue? Are they working with a dealer / is that something they have considered? etc. What new type or style of knives / embellishments are they anxious to try? What skill sets are they looking to add?

4) Do they actually make knives? Sounds trite, but as one maker and one dealer both have had occasion to mention to me in the recent past, there must be a "critical mass" of knives produced by any given maker in order to stay on the radar screen. Turning out literally a handful of knives over a period of several years will not be a winning strategy for many, reagardless of how wonderful those knives might be.

5) Good attitude. As others have mentioned - affable and open to discussion are good things to be. I can only guess that it must be hard to keep a "show smile" going for a couple days in a row, particularly if things aren't going all that well. And a fake plastic politician grin is not what I mean. But a maker who stands or sits behind his table looking grumpy, miserable and much like he'd rather be someplace else is probably quite literally scaring away customers. At least try to present as being engaged, interested and welcoming. A maker that readily gives credit to those he has learned from is also good.

Roger
 
Interesting. Reading the thread, I surmise that you guys are speaking primarily from a collector's standpont. What about from a users perspective? What do you look for in a knife that you would be willing to stick in a deer or hog's gizzard? lol Are you looking for the same type of knife that you would buy as a collector, but at a better price point? I'm guessing that the "attitude" comments mean that you are not awaiting the second coming of D.E Henry, right? hee,hee
 
Most of what I buy could be a user if needed, that is part of the deal. Of course there are those lovley Bowies that keep calling my name, that will never get used, but I do love a well made camp knife or drop point. I look for steels that would hold an edge, designs that fit a purpose and workmanship that shows some art. Steven
 
All mines have already been mentionned I believe:

1 - Hits a threshold bar in quality. This doesn't have to be top of the line, but there's a level under which I won't consider the piece.
2 - Personnal vision on knife designs.
3 - Good value for the $$$.
4 - The maker is in for the long term & will produce a critical mass of knives.
5 - No flawed personality - I don't need the maker to be an extrovert, but if I smell any hint of mystical or ninja BS, or if the maker has an unreasonable opinion of his own importance, I will walk away. I also can't stand makers who are pushy or sycophantic - there are some.
 
Joss said:
All mines have already been mentionned I believe:

1 - Hits a threshold bar in quality. This doesn't have to be top of the line, but there's a level under which I won't consider the piece.
2 - Personnal vision on knife designs.
3 - Good value for the $$$.
4 - The maker is in for the long term & will produce a critical mass of knives.
5 - No flawed personality - I don't need the maker to be an extrovert, but if I smell any hint of mystical or ninja BS, or if the maker has an unreasonable opinion of his own importance, I will walk away. I also can't stand makers who are pushy or sycophantic - there are some.
Click to expand...

Hmmmmm....not gonna touch some of those comments about personality....:D What if a maker's unreasonable opinion of his own importance has nothing to do with his knives? I feel that the world would be a lesser place without me, but my knifemaking abilities are still highly suspect...:eek: ;) But seriously, ladies and germs.......how does a maker like me develop a market of users, be they outdoorsmen or soldiers, cops, etc., for what will undoubtedly be a rather paltry output of knives in the near future? From what I have seen, the general membership on this forum, particularly the guys who frequuent the Knifemaker's Forums, are very good about supporting the new guys. As I stated before, I would like to make "users" even if some of them are too big, or perceived to be too fancy to actually use. I guess I would like to be in that middle ground where I am not only bought by custom guys who think I make a nice looking little knife that can be use, but also by guys who otherwise would have spent the same or more on a good quality (?) factory or mid-tech blade. In the short term, my knives will probably continue to look like ABS 101, simplified Moran, Loveless, Bagwell, etc. but I am trying to come up with "flair" of my own.
 
Joe - why don't you start your own thread instead of trying to derail that one? Your question ("how does a maker like me develop a market of users?") isn't related to the original question.
 
As a part time new maker, this is a great thread and will be following closely. The biggest challenge I have personally isnt the making or finishing or selling, its getting a critical mass. With a fulltime job, fulltime gf, and a new house, its tough to put out a good chunk of knives in a year unless I want to stick to very basic models, but its tough to gain skills without challenging myself. That balance is very tough when i find shop time and need to decide between grinding 3 basic small knives and knowing i can finish and sell them fairly quickly vs starting a larger project that I know will make me a better maker but will take me 3x the time....its great to hear about that critical mass aspect and would like to know exactly what that is. One knife a month? 2-3 knives a month? Right now, being off the radar is the only thing allowing me to continue learning.
 
I cannot really consider myself a collector, but I certainly do enjoy looking at knives, and am always interested in seeing works from newer guys.

Fit and finish must be in line with the price. I don't like uneven grinds or shoulders of course, but do not demand an absolutely flawless polish job if the knife is priced low enough to be a user. I don't want to see glue gaps anywhere though.

I am not too concerned about the whole full tang vs. hidden tang debate, unless it's something I plan to run through the dishwasher. (i.e., not applicable to this topic) Many of my firearms have metal exposed to sweat from my hands, etc., and I do not see the big deal. Either style can be done properly so that you don't have to worry about it.

One of the biggest things I look for though, is design. To me, the maker's knives must show that he has come from a background as a knife user himself. I have seen many knives where the maker obviously came into the craft from a background as a machinist, or a jeweler, or other sculptural type artist. He/she may be able to make a knife with great fit and finish, but have designs that leave me unimpressed. He may tout his knives as indestructable, but they lack any concept of balance or handling properties, or have grinds and edges far too thick for their intended application. Or use materials that don't belong on a blade of that type, IMO. Or they may have curves/lines that look neat, yet feel lousy in the hand, or ignore other features that would be obvious to someone who spends a good portion of their day cutting stuff.
 
Joss said:
Joe - why don't you start your own thread instead of trying to derail that one? Your question ("how does a maker like me develop a market of users?") isn't related to the original question.
Click to expand...
Sorry......just trying to figure out what attracts you guys to a knife. Folks like you are the buyers who may not only buy "this" knife, but another one or two down the road if you are pleased with the first.:D You are a HUGE part of the market for customs......arguably, you are THE market because you determine not only what is desirable, but also the prices knives will bring. Don't think for a minute that i don't want to make my knives as "perfect" as my abilities will permit......and more so....thatis the real reason that i have not sold any yet. The makers and collectors have set the bar VERY high and I got the message...lol.
 
Here are a few random thoughts:
1. I like someone I can talk to easily. Someone that seems passionate about their craft. Someone that makes me feel confident that they are interested in making me a knife I'll treasure.
2. I want to feel like the maker really cares about his knife's performance. even if I never cut anything with the knife, it's important to me that it's a high performance tool.
3. I really like to give the maker some flexibility to make something they are excited about but, at the same time, we have to have common objectives and a similar sense of style in knife-making.
That's what seems most important to me right now.
 
I look for a fit and finish first. Design can be learned.
Some people just don't have a critical eye and can easily overlook small flaws. Its just the nature of some.

Also, in my experience the best makers tend to be those who regularly collect or study the works of others.
 
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