What do you think about knives on school grounds?

glistam said:
This is true, however when I've done research into knife-related assaults and murders, the knife is almost always a kitchen knife or a slipjoint. Come to think of it, I have yet to encounter a murder or malicious wounding done with any kind of tactical knife.

Also for what it's worth, I see a few of you saying how it was all good and safe "back in the day" when everyone was carrying knives to school, I was just flipping through the Bureau of Justice Statistics. The stats don't really support that perception. For example, there were 2,424 edge-weapon murders in 1970. There were 1,589 in 2012. The number has been steadily declining for more than 25 years. This just a personal peeve of mine that so many people present their perceptions and personal experiences as though they are statistically significant conclusions. That kind of thinking is what got switchblades banned.
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The stat is most likely effected by the far greater number carrying knives at that time. When a lot of people are carrying knives , you do have the potential for some to use them as either a defensive or offensive weapon. To take that further- if you have a no carry rule for student in school , you won't have a very high number of knife related instances.
To your other point-a slipjoint can be just as deadly as a tactical. Kitchen knives are weapons of convenience .
It had totally slipped my mind in my original post, when I said we never had any problems back in the day at school. It didn't happen on school grounds, but a student in my class did come at me with a knife during some sort of argument or fight. It wasn't much of an incident. I just took the knife away from him, and I have no idea how far he would have gone with it. Would he have stabbed me, or was it a bluff I have no idea. I most likely I wasn't the only one to ever have it happen.
Most of us do carry our knives as tools. Mine would only be a weapon of very last choice.
 
I worked as a farmhand from age 12-17 and our district had a strict policy against any kind of weapon on the grounds. Now being as I would get done with morning chores and have to rush to school there was occasions that I kept my work folder on me. It was no mystery as the clip was always exposed and our Liason Officer pulled me aside and held it for the remainder of the year. I don't blame him as it was only a few years after the Colorado shootings and some students seeking attention pulled some very stupid stunts. It's more a shame that schools have to go through the lengths they do because of acts like this but in the end it's all about the safety of the student body.

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During our sophomore year in high school we were all required to purchase and carry our biology class dissecting kit. Within the kit was an all metal scalpel and several large dissecting needles, scissors, and forceps. What do they do these days ...use pre-dissected lab animals?


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n2s
 
not2sharp said:
During our sophomore year in high school we were all required to purchase and carry our biology class dissecting kit. Within the kit was an all metal scalpel and several large dissecting needles, scissors, and forceps. What do they do these days ...use pre-dissected lab animals?


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n2s
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We used the school's scalpels, and left them in the lab when we were done with class. Why would any kid need to buy a dissection kit?

Did you have to bring your own basketball to gym class?
 
I have big pockets but wouldn't have been able to edc such a disection kit.
Even if, it couldn't simply be drawn fast in a aggrevating situation and would need some premeditation instead, thus being less likely to be used for instant violence.
 
stabman said:
Sure they are.
We had bullying, pregnant teens, full-on junkies, and suicides.
Not having internet didn't stop people from passing around (and copying) naked photos of girls, or showing pics of their junk.

"Oh, my problems are SO NEW that you just wouldn't understand! My life is hard!!!" is the eternal cry of the teenager.
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Just like "Kids these days" is the eternal grump of the elders. I get what you are saying, and to a degree you are right. But there are other factors that are different. Things I did in school are forgotten, now some of the stuff that happens might exist on the public record for much longer. I got "cyber-bullied" in school, just like I got regular bullied, and did the same to others as well. But we could all turn that off. It also came slower due to dial-up. I could filter the good from the bad, we got internet when I was pretty much in high-school, where kids now have a much more difficult time with that, and its much more a part of their identities.

There are some things that will always be the domain of the young, but by and large your elders and mine knew what sort of trouble we could find. I often talk to teachers who have no idea what sort of things are possible with a kid and a smartphone. I've worked with many kids with much more general anxiety about the world that any kid did when I was growing up. They get bombarded by it, where I had parents who could filter stuff for me, they don't have that. It has an effect. A few kids might have passed around a nudie mag, or played some streetfighter, and maybe tried to replicate a fight move. But that's a far cry from a 10 year old watching game of thrones. Or those photos turning out to be taken from another kids laptop camera.

I guess it seems to me that its a matter of scale. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle ground. I just see these kids get bombarded from so many directions that I think thats its reductive to just say "well, I survived it, they can too"
 
gadgetgeek said:
Just like "Kids these days" is the eternal grump of the elders. I get what you are saying, and to a degree you are right. But there are other factors that are different. Things I did in school are forgotten, now some of the stuff that happens might exist on the public record for much longer. I got "cyber-bullied" in school, just like I got regular bullied, and did the same to others as well. But we could all turn that off. It also came slower due to dial-up. I could filter the good from the bad, we got internet when I was pretty much in high-school, where kids now have a much more difficult time with that, and its much more a part of their identities.

There are some things that will always be the domain of the young, but by and large your elders and mine knew what sort of trouble we could find. I often talk to teachers who have no idea what sort of things are possible with a kid and a smartphone. I've worked with many kids with much more general anxiety about the world that any kid did when I was growing up. They get bombarded by it, where I had parents who could filter stuff for me, they don't have that. It has an effect. A few kids might have passed around a nudie mag, or played some streetfighter, and maybe tried to replicate a fight move. But that's a far cry from a 10 year old watching game of thrones. Or those photos turning out to be taken from another kids laptop camera.

I guess it seems to me that its a matter of scale. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle ground. I just see these kids get bombarded from so many directions that I think thats its reductive to just say "well, I survived it, they can too"
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Nowadays, thanks to the Internet, cyber-bullying is, in general, much more pervasive than the bullying of decades past, though that was bad as well. The big difference is the anonymity. Many young people nowadays revel in a "culture of cowardice", in which taking potshots at and attacking others is done from a keyboard instead of face to face. In decades past, the bullies always took a risk, no matter how small, that the tables would be turned on them. With cyber-bullying, that's pretty much gone. There is no accountability, and though it's chicken as hell, such people actually wear such cowardice as a badge of honor in their minds. I don't think that kids with such mentalities should ever carry a knife of any kind. I honestly DO NOT envy the kids growing up these days; I'm glad I grew up in the '70s. I wouldn't trade places with them for anything. And a high percentage of them don't seem as equipped to deal with difficulties or challenges in life.

I also observe that in general, today's kids have been coddled much more than kids during, say, the '70s.

That said, I always laugh when I hear news stories that say, "Things you'll be shocked to find out is happening in your kids' schools". And "What your teen knows that will shock you." Then they talk about drug dealing/drug use, alcohol use, teen sex, bullying, etc. LISTEN UP, PEOPLE: There's nothing new or original about any of that stuff.

Jim
 
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I have no doubt that the kids of today are different than we were in the '80s or my parents in the '50s, even though they all saw violence, teen pregnancies and drug use. I really can't tell if things are statistically better or worse - the fact that we now have instant news reporting leads us to believe that we are constantly surrounded by violence when we actually have a very large population and the number of deaths from violence relatively low compared to other eras.

I see this issue more like playground equipment, car seats and bike helmets - kids didn't get hurt less in the old days. They suffered more grievous injuries than they do now, and the terrible injuries that were more common several decades ago have led directly to the current focus on safety.

We talk about banning knives as if it is something new, but it isn't. Concern about knives used in crime was so great the US Congress passed the switchblade ban all the way back in 1954 - mainly because of youth violence.

Aside from the kids themselves, a major change over time has just been the amount of liability adults are willing to accept for actions that are not necessary to the activity they are involved in. Knives and school just don't have anything to do with each other, they sometimes don't mix, and adults realized this and put an end to it. It really isn't surprising.



I thought this was interesting reading. It doesn't prove any point, as much as get one thinking about just how recent school violence is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States
 
HDCutlery said:
I worked as a farmhand from age 12-17 and our district had a strict policy against any kind of weapon on the grounds. Now being as I would get done with morning chores and have to rush to school there was occasions that I kept my work folder on me. It was no mystery as the clip was always exposed and our Liason Officer pulled me aside and held it for the remainder of the year. I don't blame him as it was only a few years after the Colorado shootings and some students seeking attention pulled some very stupid stunts. It's more a shame that schools have to go through the lengths they do because of acts like this but in the end it's all about the safety of the student body.

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Just my opinion, but if this is the complete story, it was handled well. A rule was broken, but they didn't make a mountain out of a mole hill. They analyzed the situation and took an appropriate level of reaction to it. Another level of problem deserves a different reaction.
 
Peter Hartwig said:
Just my opinion, but if this is the complete story, it was handled well. A rule was broken, but they didn't make a mountain out of a mole hill. They analyzed the situation and took an appropriate level of reaction to it. Another level of problem deserves a different reaction.
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I agree and had it been one of the teaching staff there would have been a complete uproar. The fact that the knife was mainly used to cut twine and feed bags would have been ignored completely.

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gadgetgeek said:
A few kids might have passed around a nudie mag, or played some streetfighter, and maybe tried to replicate a fight move.
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I think you make the past a little too innocent.

Sure, Columbine hadn't happened yet, but the guy from my grade 10 drafting class went and, with another guy he knew, committed the city's first triple murder.
They killed a kid they knew that was supposed to complete a big illicit gun deal with him...and killed his grandparents. Stabbed them all to death.
They tried to get another person I knew involved, but he claimed he was too busy studying to go murdering...I never liked that guy, but at least he didn't go murdering anyone.

Ah, the innocent times of the past.
Those were the good old days... ;)
 
[video=youtube;ceVXIs7Ihyw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceVXIs7Ihyw&list=RDceVXIs7Ihyw[/video]
 
Back in my day I carried a folding knife and so did most of my classmates and it was a non issue. In shop class we were told to bring in a knife for the sharpening seminars. A few kids forgot to bring in a knife for that class and received a failed mark for the assignment.
 
Well, I'm headed off to the university to grab a coffee...they still have some Tim Horton's contest cups.
I won't be carry a knife...I'll be carrying three. :)
 
Stab, like I said, the truth is probably out there in the middle somewhere, and you are correct, the past wasn't that innocent, not by a long shot.
 
These good old days memories of people are for the most part from their childhood-Childhood is fairly innocent and free from the worries of the world, or at least it should be. Also memories are usually good biased . Neither of which necessarily reflect reality.
 
Peter Hartwig said:
These good old days memories of people are for the most part from their childhood-Childhood is fairly innocent and free from the worries of the world, or at least it should be. Also memories are usually good biased . Neither of which necessarily reflect reality.
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And future "good old day" memories, for today's kids, will include going to school buildings designed after correction institutions, undergoing draconian security checks, having no access to knives, guns or even the ability to talk about or show pictures of them; and generally being restricted in everything they do ...since we are all very risk and liability adverse. Does flying a kite require a permit these days?

No matter how much you would like to gloss over the differences, things have changed for the worse in many ways. Although, back then I would have been thrilled to have the research ability that kids have today via the internet.

n2s
 
I am a junior in high school, taking college classes, so i can have knives if I want but usually tuck them into my pockets just in case. In high school I carried multiple knives daily since about the middle of my freshman year because someone was going to bring a gun to school. All my friends and I always carried knives, sometimes they were clipped on pockets all day and nobody said anything about it. I was the only one to get caught and that was because I let a friend borrow a knife inside a pen, a student teacher saw him use it. He gave me a warning but i got the impression that he only cared because he had to. I see no reason why students should not be able to carry knives that can fit in their pockets.

I have a feeling that I am one of the extremes here but whatever.


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not2sharp said:
And future "good old day" memories, for today's kids, will include going to school buildings designed after correction institutions, undergoing draconian security checks, having no access to knives, guns or even the ability to talk about or show pictures of them; and generally being restricted in everything they do ...since we are all very risk and liability adverse. Does flying a kite require a permit these days?

No matter how much you would like to gloss over the differences, things have changed for the worse in many ways. Although, back then I would have been thrilled to have the research ability that kids have today via the internet.

n2s
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They may yet be the good old days for todays kids-It could yet get worse. I also am not happy with some trends today, but I don't know that the knives in the schools is where I want to do my battle. I would rather the school system spend it's energy on gaining control of the classes, getting rid of the police element and educating. if no knives gives them an edge on the others it is worth it to me, but right now they are loosing on all fronts-at least from my vantage point(no offence intended to those trying)
My post however was about how we had painted this crime free, everything was great picture of the good old days. It wasn't, but being a kid and being in a lower information time, I had a very low awareness of it and all seemed good to me. Still I certainly would choose the period I grew up in 50's, 60's and 70's over today. I don't know if todays kids would agree, since it would mean giving up their I phones, computers, cable TV for more freedoms and fresh air. A question only they can answer
I believe I saw a poll somewhere that people would rather give up sex then their I phone, and what is that slide rule thing.
 
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In 12th grade, I made a leather sheath for a paring knife in my art class. I was required to bring the paring knife to school. Nowadays that would never wash.

From 8th grade on, I always carried at least one pocketknife at school, starting in 1977. Everybody did. Nobody ever pulled one in a fight that I saw. And I saw some very violent, bloody fights at school.

Eliminating policing in schools is putting the cart before the horse. Firstly, it should be on parents to teach their children respect, consideration for others and themselves. These days, school shootings and threats of school violence leading to lockdowns are so common they're barely newsworthy for more than maybe a day. I remember back in 1979, when a local girl named Brenda Spencer shot up an elementary school, and when caught, she said she did it because "I hate Mondays." Back then, that was seen as a BIG story with tons of notoriety. Nowadays it would barely make a blip in the news other than locally.

Because of this over-reliance on technology, a high percentage of kids and young adults today have retarded social skills. Even if they have lots of 'friends' and party a lot, because their main relationships are with devices.

Another issue has to do with the over-coddling many of today's kids receive, whose parents always tell them they're the greatest no matter what, and blahblahblah. In children's sports, they get awards just for showing up. Then, when many of them go off to college, they have an extremely hard time coping because they're in the real world for the first time and begin to realize that they aren't as special as they were always told. Yet paradoxically, they still carry a sense of entitlement. When many kids that age and younger haven't developed basic social skills, maturity, or the ability to handle difficulties or failure, you get these school shootings that in the past would have led to no more than fistfights. And even in fistfights, nowadays the loser will commonly go home and bring a gun to school for revenge. Much more than in decades past. So I don't believe in an all-encompassing belief that all kids should be allowed to carry knives at school, or elsewhere. It depends on the individual. That goes double for driving a car

Jim
 
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