What do you think of GIN 5

DW,
Get with the program, Go with the flow, etc. Hog wash.... In the '60's Buck led the way with what was then considered outragiously priced goods, but the designs were a hit. Other mfg's. followed THEM. The Buck fell into a rut and others passed them by. No person or company can be a leader while playing it safe in a catch-up mode. Buck had a good thing going with the Master Series, but they dropped the ball on that one. The Buck-cote stuff is great, but is Buck pushing it?.......Nope! Another failure in marketing just waiting for someone to put dirt on the body. Buck used to do som serious marketing,but I don't know what happened. Most of their base market doesn't even know about some of this stuff.

Would the K-Mart shopper buy a 110MS? Yes, if they knew the advantages over the std.110. I believe that the "Bread and butter" "ELU's" are more savy than most marketing people emagine.
Stop now, rant mode off.
Dan
 
DK

Go with the flow?? That would be hogwash, if I had said it. What I said was, "get with the program"! In my mind those are two different things.

Are you sure that it was my post you read? Did you read the whole thing?

I never said not to take a leadership position. I did advocate new and inovative projects. I also said that they shouldn't make limited runs and that they should do a better job of promoting their products.

What I am saying is that before you can lead, you have to catch up. Leadership is no good if you are not giong in the right direction. If the path leads over a cliff then it is the wrong direction if you dont have a parachute.

As far as the Master series goes, I seriously doubt that they would sell in the 'Marts if they were put in at retail and, if they went in with the deep discounts that the marts commit, then regular dealers wouldn't carry them because we couldn't make any money if we did. (I know thats a long sentence).

The funny thing about the MS, I have a couple and haven't sold any. I didn't even get any inquirys about them till after they were discontinued and those came from this forum. My price is retail and if they were so great and special they would sell at that price. Other brands do. The only reason a 'Mart shopper would buy a MS is if it were really cheap.

You are right about the promotion problem. I don't know why the coated knives weren't promoted better. It is a good system and deserves better exposure. They could have done a better job of promoting the MS too.



[This message has been edited by Dennis Wright (edited 14 July 1999).]
 
Now I don't consider myself an expert, but I would like to share my opinion, for what its worth($.02).

I owned a buck several years ago, and it disappeared. I bought an Endura to replace it after hearing how great their steel was. As soon as I heard that there was a new 110 with high grade steel, I went out and bought it. This was only last week that I even heard about it. I was lucky that the store that I regularly shop at even had any left.

I think that maintaining the level of quality and materials that they have now is fine for most 'mart' shoppers, and they would be foolish to throw away that portion of the market. I know lots of people who would be plain happy with a regular Buck.

However, it would be nice to have a 'higher end' lineup that incorporated the classic/traditional designs, but also have higher quality materials, tighter tolerances, and higher levels of quality control in the production. I believe that there is a large market of other people out there, like myself, who don't buy Buck strictly because there are higher quality blades out there on different brands.(Without making custom shop orders)

I love the 110 in BG-42. I would buy their other models in the same steel too. I am disappointed as well that the Master Series is discontinued.(And I never would have even heard of it if I hadn't joined the forum)

Just my 2 cents.

[This message has been edited by SharpCdn (edited 14 July 1999).]

[This message has been edited by SharpCdn (edited 14 July 1999).]
 
Sharp,

I too am sad to see the Master Series discontinued. I would really like to see it brought back and promoted properly. I think that it was originally planned to be a limited edition for only one year (1998).

I think that if they had spent some more time and effort(and money) promoting these knives they would have gotten enough demand to keep them going. They are really fine knives. You are fortunate to have gotten one.

------------------
Dennis Wright
Wright Knife & Sporting Goods

wrightknife@ixpres.com

 
Just a token comment to push this thread up to the top. I thought some interesting comments were made while Jeff H. was out of town.
 
All
A little on Steel here a Buck...
We are moving into high end steels. Expect alot of BG-42 next year and later this year. We can cut it like butter now.

One of our limitations is that because of volume, we need to fineblank. If we tried to Laser cut all of our models in a higher end steel such as ATS-34, consumer prices would skyrocket. Look at our competitors who have comparable quality with higher price points. We do not want to become an expensive knife company. We are looking to replace 420HC with another alloy. To fineblank the Carbon content needs to stay lower (under 1.0). ATS-55 is a good example of an alloy that was modified to try to make fineblankable steel, and lost a performance edge to ATS-34 in doing so.
We are adding a performance line in addition to our standard line. Lets face it, alot of Customers do not Care about ATS and other steel. They want reasonable quality at a low price.

We will be agressivly pursuing this cause.

Side note....
IMHO, Most of our sharpenability problems over the last few years can be attributed more to poor initial sharpening techniques than to 420HC being a bad steel. Is it as good as the Specialty stuff? No. Is it adequate for the knife users that aren't knowledgable or do not want to spend the extra $'s? Very much so. With our EDGE 2000 process, our knives are 30% sharper out of the box. Same old 420. IMHO 420 is getting a bad rap for a common use steel.
What we in this forum have to remember is that we ARE NOT NORMAL CUSTOMERS. We know alot more than the average user. When I show BG-42 to guys like my neighbors the signifigance is lost until I explain it.
Your feedback is most valuable in our future stratagies, so keep the feedback coming.

Jeff

------------------
Jeff "Without data it's just another opinion" Hubbard
Quality Supervisor

JeffH@buckknives.com
www.buckknives.com
Watch for Pete's Custom Knife Shoppe on www.buckknives.com

 
I reprofile the edge on every knife I ever get. Factory edges are immaterial to me. You need a better steel. It is relatively hard to sharpen for relatively mediocre performance. Get something with vanadium and a finer grain structure. Use AUS-8 as a reference alloy.
 
The old saying about not being able to be all things to all people sure comes to mind here. If you are that limited on carbon you may find something better than 420 but you will still be catering to the same market. If that is the case then why bother replacing the existing steel? Also with the quality and performance of knives coming out of Taiwan in better and better steels and in at the same price point Buck is at isn't Buck just a lil concerened about competeing? It sure seems like the decision that has been made will cause Buck to appear further and further away in the rear view mirror. I do hope that Buck does choose to use higher end steels on the knives from the custom shop. I am sorry but it sure does appear that Buck is really out of touch with what is going on in the market place.

Regards,

Tom Carey
 
Jeff,
I don't think ATS-55 gave anything away in place of ATS-34. ATS-34 hasn't showen me anything. I have quite a few knives from diferent makers in this stuff and I remain very underwelmed[sic?].
Dan
 
Well, I stumbled into this thread looking for GIN-5 (which I found, and was underwhelmed), and found a whole lot of information and opinions. So, I'd like to add my own.
I grew up in the 70's, early 80's. I got a Buck Duke in about the 79 time frame, and I loved that knife. It held and edge, and held it, and held it. I loved that knife, and couldn't believe how much better it held an edge than the other couple of knives I had, like Camillus, Case, and maybe an Old Timer (Schrade?). Anyway, I liked it so much that I bought a couple more Bucks in the following years. Well, I started to notice that they just didn't hold an edge like that Duke. Why was that? I assumed they had changed steels, and went to a lower grade. Sure enough, IIRC, I have since found out that Buck went to the current 420HC sometime in the early 80's. Like I said, IIRC some of the threads I read.
At the time, I was one of the common cumtomers, didn't know squat about the different steel, except maybe higher carbon was better. But, I knew that the Bucks I bought after that Duke just weren't holding the edge I wanted. You know what? I quit buying Bucks. So, I have a few of them around, and I LOVE the traditional designs. But, I would love them even more if they would go to a better steel. Even a little better. From everything I can find, the 420HC is about the same as the GIN-5 in Carbon content, if not lower. Buck needs better steel, in ALL their knives, not just their higher end. I was just a common man (probably still am to many, based on my rantings here
redface.gif
), and I could tell a difference. Other customers will, if Buck starts offering better steel. I've got to believe that.

------------------
Work hard, play hard, live long.
Outlaw_Dogboy

 
Gentlemen,

I think this is the most fascinating thread I have ever read.

My grandfather built a company around producing a fine knife out of the best materials that would function for the life of the purchaser. We have never intentionaly backed down from that ideal but looking back over the last 10 years it is obvious we did.

Our internal focus has been knife performance for the last year. Fruits of that focus are now hitting the marketplace and aspects today will hit the first of next year. This is a public forum and I do need to keep some cards close to the vest but I will assure you that your comments are being listened to.

Thank you for sharing and please continue

------------------
CJ Buck
Buck Knives, Inc.
AKTI Member #PR00003


 
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