What do you think of the "Generic" bushcraft knife?

[stabman]

I dont know if you know this or not but, if you cut the bark in a circle down to the wood around a tree like you appear to have done in this pic, the tree will die because its phloem and xylem(water and sap) can no longer flow. Putting a piece of cloth, birch bark, exc. or being more careful when tying can stop this from happening and save the tree for further use. No point in killing a large mature tree just to make your shelter.

That same tree has been cut a bunch of times over the years.
It's still alive; it's a damn tough tree.

Having used the same site for years and years, I can say that nature is tougher than a lot of folks give it credit for.

 

[Tachead7075]

In the far future, all humans will be dead...and the world will be all pretty and stuff. :thumbup:
Think long-term.

While you are likely right here(or at least there wont be many humans), you should at least try to leave it like you found it so others can enjoy the "pretty stuff" in its natural state. Do you at least clean up when you are done your trips(take apart all your shelters, remove all man made things, exc.)?

 

[The cow]

I see the interest in Bushcraft knives as something of a market correction.

It would be interesting to hit the rewind button and redo history in a scenario in which the deep hollow grind didn't dominate the US market and in which convexed sabre grinds remained popular. Would today's slab handled Bushcraft knife have emerged? And if it did, would we see it as a variation of well accepted designs or as a fad?

Mors had an interesting video on the knives thats been used in his classes. However, if it wasn't for the hollow grind, I wouldn't be surprised if "the bushcraft" knife would look more like Mors and modern puukkos.
I'm not familiar with the history of full-tang knives but their "must have" feature of a knife seems to be relatively recent one due to the popularity of survivalism/bushcraft and the troglodytes who bash their knives through the densest and knottiest hardwood you can find (which probably lead to the quarter inch thick prybar fad)

 

[Tachead7075]

That same tree has been cut a bunch of times over the years.
It's still alive; it's a damn tough tree.

Having used the same site for years and years, I can say that nature is tougher than a lot of folks give it credit for.

Yeah, a tree wont die unless its bark is cut completely around for enough width generally. But, the more bark that's removed around the circumference the more damage to the health of the tree. Pealing birch bark off completely around to the wood is a common example that will surely kill the tree. Just thought I would point it out because not everyone knows that removing a trees bark is probably the most damaging thing you could do short of cutting a tree down. Simple precautions can be taken to keep the bark intact and cause no damage as well.

At least you use the same site. That causes much less impact:thumbup:

 

[DeadboxHero]

"Toughness" comes from the alloy, the hardness, and the quality of heat treat. If you want edge holding plus some pretty high toughness at a reasonable hardness, M4 wins cutting contests. Carbon steel. If you want more toughness and still high edge holding, 4V and 3V have much to offer. Carbon steel. If you want indestructible, S5 and S7 are amazing. Carbon steel. Crucible provides plenty of charts that their engineers have made putting their excellent selection of carbon and SS up against each other for both toughness and edge holding.

You can make some stainless steels much tougher by running them relatively soft, but you lose the edge holding properties.

You can also take a fantastic steel, like A2, and HT to 58 Hrc and essentially destroy the toughness inherent in the alloy because you tempered it at 450° F and caused Tempered Marstenite Embrittlement. I'm starting to believe that this is actually so common in the knife industry that an awful lot of carbon steel knives are essentially brittle.

Beyond getting the HT right, Cold Steel used to advertise CarbonV as indestructible. When Camillus closed and the CarbonV dried up, that advertising changed. When you see broken carbon CS blades, is that because of the length of time CV was advertised, or because AUS8 is actually tougher? I would say it is the first.


As far as VG1 core steels, this isn't "stainless knife steel", this is a composite of high carbon VG1 and low carbon, soft structural steel. It should be better - it is a very costly, lower strength way of making a blade. The side steel encourages bending, not fractures, and it will bend with much less force than a fully hardened steel.


If you want to compare apples to apples, you have to start with steels being HT'd to the proper range for that steel. Consumer products aren't always the best place to judge this. But I would put an A2 blade tempered to 60 Hrc up against most any stainless you've tried for both wear resistance and toughness. 58 Hrc, not so much.

I thought the cold steel San mai stuff was clad in 420j2 like the fallknivens

Also I love A2 great stuff

 

[RX-79G]

I thought the cold steel San mai stuff was clad in 420j2 like the fallknivens

Also I love A2 great stuff

Not sure. 420J2 has a carbon content of .15 to .36%. That is pretty low and 420J2 is not renowned for anything but not rusting or breaking. By the time it is tempered it is down in the low 50s Hrc, tops. Soft, tough steel.

 

[stabman]

At least you use the same site. That causes much less impact:thumbup:

Exactly.
It's going on 6 years of using the same site.

If I end up moving somewhere else where I will not be able to get out there often, I will remove the cinderblocks and bricks we brought out.
I will even dig out the charred area of the burn pit, and put some topsoil there. :thumbup:
Plant a few trees while we're at it...it would make for a nice day out.

I certainly wouldn't be chopping trees or leaving shelters in National or Provincial Parks, as not only is it generally prohibited, but it would also be a dick move.
Those are the places where families take their kids to go see nature, and are specifically set aside for that.


As for Bushcraft knives, I do like the Battle Horse Knives Tree Frog:

It's a Scandi-grind folder with pins that go through the handle and blade, making it really solid.
Those pictures involve dead wood that was lying around, and some fast growing tall grasses; just took it out for a quick review the day I got it.
It worked well, but hasn't seen much use since then; I tend to take a big knife along with a regular folder (or three) when I head out to the woods, and therefore haven't had the need for it much.

I'll get around to using it more at some point.

 

[DeadboxHero]

Not sure. 420J2 has a carbon content of .15 to .36%. That is pretty low and 420J2 is not renowned for anything but not rusting or breaking. By the time it is tempered it is down in the low 50s Hrc, tops. Soft, tough steel.

Oh it dominants the budget fillet knife market too.


I couldnt find what the cold steel sanmai III is clad in, I know the fallknivens have an outer laminate of 420j2

I believe cold steel also uses Hattori in Japan to construct there Japanese models

Trade secret, can't confirm

I do know the sanmai is highly corrosion resistant though.

 

[Alfazulu]

And I'll say again something I've said elsewhere:
I don't care.

No car.
No kids.
I impact the planet WAY less than all the breeders driving their cars around.
So yeah, I ain't ganna stop.

In the far future, all humans will be dead...and the world will be all pretty and stuff. :thumbup:
Think long-term.

That's an extremely selfish, immature view you have. You don't care. I'm glad you live in Canada. That lessens the chances that I'll happen across your swath of chopped and stripped forest.

Edited to reduce the rant.

 

[pinnah]

The direction this thread has taken highlights why I'm somewhat ambivalent about "bushcraft" itself, which then casts a shadow on the knives themselves.

The techniques of bushcraft are really, really cool and something that outdoors people should certainly study and practice. But bushcraft as a way of camping is horribly and unsustainably destructive.

I'm fine with people doing it on private land. That's the landowner's call. But on public land, you're stealing the experience of encountering undisturbed wild land from your neighbors.

Justifying it by saying you live in an apartment is like justifying speeding in a school zone by saying you don't speed on the highway. It's entirely unrelated.

It's not like I'm going to find an abused turd farm campsite like that and think, well, I guess it's ok if the guy who did this was an apartment dweller. Trashed is trashed.

 

[mec003]

I couldn't agree with you more pinnah. Well said.

 

[RX-79G]

I think Stabman's bivouac destroys less of the environment than the paper your McDonalds lunch came wrapped in. I'd suggest finding something else to rail against.

 

[trevitrace]

I assume you have supporting data?

 

[RevDevil]

This thread is about to get closed unless folks can spin this back on topic. These threads are getting old and the same players are at it again.

That's an extremely selfish, immature view you have. You don't care. I'm glad you live in Canada. That lessens the chances that I'll happen across your swath of chopped and stripped forest.

Edited to reduce the rant.

FYI - People can have opinions and beliefs that vary wildly from your own. That is real life, every day, all day. If you cannot handle the difference views someone has then find a more civil way to disagree, or simply acknowledge the difference and move along. There is no need to rant, much less a condensed rant.

 

[KingMC]

*edit* wrong thread.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions, but trying to shame someone because their camping might've harmed a tree or 2 is pretty hypocritical and should be left out of a thread like this.

 

[Tachead7075]

This thread is about to get closed unless folks can spin this back on topic. These threads are getting old and the same players are at it again.



FYI - People can have opinions and beliefs that vary wildly from your own. That is real life, every day, all day. If you cannot handle the difference views someone has then find a more civil way to disagree, or simply acknowledge the difference and move along. There is no need to rant, much less a condensed rant.

Not caring about needlessly destroying the forest and leaving rubble and garbage all over your campsite is more then an opinion. Did you even read the posts leading up to the statement he is quoting? The poster of the "I dont care" comment further clarified and some what redeemed himself but, his first response was appalling and considered criminal in most states and provinces. I am from the same country as him and it is actually up to a $25000 fine for littering and/or dumping/leaving garbage in the forest. Building a shelter on crown land and leaving it is also not permitted. People had/have a valid reason to not handle his different views/opinion, in this case, and call him on it. The forest is for everyone to use, not just his, yours, or mine, and it is everyone's responsibility to leave it how they found it. It is the law and not an opinion. Not to mention anyone who is morally sound and not hugely self entitled shouldnt have to be reminded of these laws.

I agree though that we should get back on topic... bushcraft knives.

I like them because they give you a tool that can do many things including rough duties without fear of failure. I prefer FFG ones as apposed to scandi or saber ground myself.

 

[pinnah]

This thread is about to get closed unless folks can spin this back on topic. These threads are getting old and the same players are at it again.

Rev, just to clarify.

ON TOPIC IN GENERAL FORUM: Discusion of knives.

OFF TOPIC IN GENERAL FORUM BUT ON TOPIC IN THE WILDERNESS AND OUTDOOR SUB-FORUM: Posting pictures describing certain camping styles (as Stabman did in post 55) and criticism of the same (as I did in post 70).

FYI - People can have opinions and beliefs that vary wildly from your own. That is real life, every day, all day. If you cannot handle the difference views someone has then find a more civil way to disagree, or simply acknowledge the difference and move along. There is no need to rant, much less a condensed rant.

Stabman has on several occasions noted that he does this form of camping on public lands. Use and care of public lands is a perennially hot topic of debate. IMO, a part of the "real life" you're correctly noting is that when such controversial positions are put forth on a forum, readers, posters and moderators should expect opposing views to also be voiced.

On this one, I hope the right answer is for Stabman (and those like him) and I (and those like me) to take the debate (civilly) to the Wilderness sub-forum. Do I have this right?

 

[LukeTheSpook]

I think most of my current knives could be considered bushcrafting knives. It's really the main reason I have those tools. I don't use knives for primary defense or food prep. Mostly for woodcraft and things of that nature.

I'm a big fan of big Chris knives in traditional patterns such as kephart, nessmuck and puukko. BHK bushcrafter which is basically a scandi grind kephart and BHK highlander which is a flat grind French trade knife.

I have moras and Kellum puukko too. Great tools. Even my swamp rat Infidu is basically a bishcraft type knife for me. Oh and the busse combat hog muk is sweet also.

Tomahawks and small axes compliment the puukko quite well.

Yeah, I like the bishcraft types knives. Even the 1/4" thick sharpened pry bars.

 

[The cow]

I completely agree with this. "Bushcraft" knives are a return to the simple knives everyone used to use, and away from fad combat knives and blades optimized for hunting, like the Bucks.

I'd agree to an extent. The Woodlore tends to be a very optimized knife for bushcrafting and suffers for hunting/skinning tasks. My custom and SWC were not the best at processing deer.
It has given some anchor to the fixed blades, though folding blades have gone off the rails. More and more absurd "hard use" designs come down the pipe every day *cough cough Medford Praetorian*

 

[stabman]

I think Stabman's bivouac destroys less of the environment than the paper your McDonalds lunch came wrapped in. I'd suggest finding something else to rail against.

Exactly.

"Oh no, someone has established a campsite that they have used for 6 years, bringing joy to his family and friends. That is so horrible."

I think some folks have this odd idea that I'm rampaging through he woods across the land like an unstoppable juggernaut of destruction...sorry folks, but I keep going to the same spot of land.

They also bring out the "What if everyone did it" argument.
Well guess what? Everyone is not, and will not.
99% of the people I talk to cannot fathom camping anywhere there is not electrical hookup and showers, and paved parking right beside where they'll pitch their tent (or park their trailer...).


You know what pissed me off?
There's a tract of land where a rail line used to go. People now walk their dogs along there and hike, seeing as nature has grown back in.
Well, the city came along and chain-sawed down more trees than I have cut in 6 years...to improve the view of the bottom of some billboards!!

But I guess that's cool, because it's for the very important purpose of seeing the rusty steel holding up the signs encouraging consumerism...