What do YOU think the law regarding knives in school should be??

Eric Isaacson

Eric Isaacson

Pirate
Joined
Dec 19, 1999
Messages
12,547
We have all heard about the recent suspensions of honor students who accidentally brought knives to school. Well, what do you all think should be done? Should there be a max. blade length in schools, do you think all knives should be allowed? I just was wondering what is rational to allow? I have my own thoughts but want to hear from you first.
Thanks
Eric


------------------
Outside of a dog, a Knife is man's best friend. Inside a dog it is very, very Dark.
 
I think the same laws that apply state-wide should also apply in the schools. I don`t believe one should give up any personal freedoms upon entering a school. Unfortunately, schools are structured more like detention centers than places of learning.
 
I don't think anything more than a small SAK,a multitool or pen knife should be allowed. That way the weapon issue is a moot point. I also think the accidental bringings should be looked at case by case and not just thrown into the Zero Tolerance pile. The persons intent should have a lot to do with consequences.

Jake
 
Here in Texas the legal blade length is 5 1/2", and that to me is longer than a teen would ever need in a school setting. I always carried a small Case knife to school, and used to whittle during our outdoor breaks. I think a moderate sized folder, say 3" max blade, would be great. The problem to me seems that we are making too many rules showing the children of today that we don't trust them, and that lack of trust turns from hurt to anger. Just a personal opinion!



------------------
"You should never never doubt what nobody is sure about..."
 
Okay, I may not be popular for this but...

I think there should be restrictions on knives in schools. WAIT! Hear me out BEFORE you try and lynch me. All the time I went through high school and university I carried a SAK. If someone tried to confiscate it or told me not to bring it again I would have said "Okay, sure" and completely ignored them. I see no problem with REASONABLE sized POCKET knives in schools (this includes multi-tools). But I think that big pocket knives (an AFCK for example), or fixed knives have no place in school.

School should be a place of learning, but for many it can be a place of violence and terror. Let's be realistic, kids beat up kids for no real reason sometimes. That's bad enough, but to wonder if that kid's got a knife?!? That's not what school is about. I don't think any kid should have to worry if the person next to them is armed. And if that is perceived as saying it's alright to remove or limit some personal freedoms, then I guess that's what I'm saying. I don't want anyone telling me what kind of knives I can carry and where, but I'm in my late twenties, not 15 and wondering if I'm going to get beaten up for my lunch money. There is a difference between rights and freedoms walking down the street as a mature adult and the same when you're a teenager in a public school system.
It's one thing to think about YOUR rights being infringed on, but think about how you'd feel if YOUR CHILD was scarred to go to school. What's more important?

That being said I think this zero-tolerance stuff is a load of crap! Especially the suspensions and expulsions of good kids. Bobby carries a bowie to school, Bobby should be sent home. Bobby has a SAK and gets expelled when he uses it to open some supplies in the lab is stupid. And knives in cars on school property is just as stupid. Everyone in my family has carried some kind of knife in the glove box (I live in a rural area so I guess that might matter). It's not to kill anyone with, it's just a tool.

I'm big on freedom and choice, but I also believe there need to be limits and controls. I don't think many people would disagree with that. I think the disagreement comes from how those limits are imposed. Unfortunatly it seem that it is all too often done with the jerk of a knee.



------------------
"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heav'n"
John Milton
There are only two types of people; those who understand this, and those who think they do.
 
Zero tolerence - zero common sense. I think we, the voters need to look at the issue. A SAK or paring knife is not a V-42... Common sense should reign supreme. But, alas that will not be the case. More laws will make things right!
smile.gif
Colorado is looking at passing a law to make it illegal to sell a handgun to someone under 21, also to make "straw" purchases illegal. Duh, US Code already addresses those issues. Bring back legislators and legislation that have common sense! Make jails and prisons a bad place to be! They are places of punishment!
 
For one thing, there should probably be different rules for first grade and twelth grade. For another, the disciplinary system should not be an enemy of children who are clearly not trying to do any harm.

When The Wife was intercepted at the courthouse door with a (shudder) steel salad fork in her briefcase, she was not arrested, nor fined for contempt of court. The fearful authorities simply put a tag on that salad fork and kept it until she finished her mundane business inside and retrieved it on the way out. A school should at least as friendly a place as a courthouse. Disapprove of a Swiss Army Knife in a pocket or a paring knife in a lunch box - in general or in the hands of that particular child - then store it in the principal's office, and release it to the child on departure or to parents later, depending, and tell the child not to bring it again.

And learn the difference between a Victorinox Classic and a Cold Steel Vaquero Grande. But where do we draw the line? You have to draw lines somewhere - that's life.

Use common sense. Has the kid been fighting, so that a Swiss Army Knife is more "suspicious" than it normally would be?

But it is a difficult problem. Having a table at a few knife shows, I've met a few boys - age 12-15 - who are openly and unduly fascinated by the potential for mayhem in the most "innocent" of sharp objects.

Maybe only girls should have knives in school. If a boy wants to cut something, he'll have to ask nicely.
biggrin.gif


Yes, I know there are responsible boys and irresponsible girls! And honor students can "lose it" too. And if an administrator uses what he thinks is common sense, and then somebody gets cut, he'll be sued.


------------------
- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
It seems to me that the rational approach would be to say "carry whatever knives you want - just don't stick 'em into anyone".

Make sticking knives into people something that brings dire consequences, and it'll work.


------------------
"..it is foolishness and endless trouble to cast a
stone at every dog that barks at you.."
 
Hello, i just graduate from high school last year and from grade 10 on i always had my spyderco endura or BM AFCK on me and generaly a multitool in my backpack although knives were not allowed at school ppl knew i carried them and in fact some teachers asked to use them and there were no problems. I did a lot of tech work and computer repairs so they did not bat an eye at them. When i was in charge of the tech crew or video crew for the school play i sometimes had as many as 5 or 6 kives on me since everyone was asking me for one since they did not have one. I see no reason that if there is a reason for having them that they should be baned

bayden cline
 
I am in agreement with the previous comments about perceived intent. Example 1. Billy is an honor student, president of the senior class, and well liked by everyone. Gets caught with a small pocket knife and expelled. Is this kid really out to carve his initials in someone's backside and create mayhem? Example 2. Bobby is a 20 year old junior who is 3 years behind everyone else in his class because he spent the last 3 years in prison. The only reason he is in school at all is because his parole officer says he has to be or he goes back to jail. He carries a 5 inch auto exposed in his back pocket and doesn't care who sees it. Not only do the rest of the students fear his intentions but the teachers give him a wide berth as well. This guy is not going to be voted Mr. Nice Guy. I think you get my drift. Perceived Intent has to be looked at. Zero tolerence is an excuse not to exercise good judgement. School officials these days do not want to be responsible for exercising judgement. Just my take on the subject.
Rs
Don
 
Johan :

Let's be realistic, kids beat up kids for no real reason sometimes. That's bad enough, but to wonder if that kid's got a knife?!?
Click to expand...

This is a really bad argument that people use all the time. To be very blunt most if not all people are very easy to hurt because they are not self aware in this regard. If one kid wants to seriously injure even kill another or that matter numerous others they can regardless of if they have a knife or not. All that matters is intent.


I don't see school as needing to have additional restrictions and its not like the kids who are willing to inflict serious injury on others are going to pay attention to them anyway. It does no good and just feeds the misargument about knives in general.

In fact when I went to school, knives were very common and people would use even "large" lockbacks without a second glance. Now the policy seems to have changed, but yet there are far more fights now and much more serious incidents.

-Cliff

 
fyi a sakcan be a devisating weapon, try onpening the scew driver awl whatever on the back a blade on the left and the can opener on the right no hold it like a push dagger with the back tool out through the fist. Not a nice knife.

------------------
Sanity is overrated, simply a moonbeam spilling pearls on a dark and treacherous sea.
j . p hissom
 
my opinon is that minors are not allowed weapons, so we must remove their brains from birth to 18 yoa because the brain is the most dangerous weapon of all, how do we do this complicated procedure, why send them to public school to dull their intilect and soften their imagination.

------------------
Sanity is overrated, simply a moonbeam spilling pearls on a dark and treacherous sea.
j . p hissom
 
I think that knives in school would have to regulated much more stringently than among adults simply because children are not as mature and in the case of young children, they are often very uncoordinated. I think that the old law in my home of South Carolina was good in that it limited knife blades on campuses to 2" or less. A small SAK or Ladybug or Gerber LST ought to be able to accomplish any task that a student would need to do. If the student needs a bigger blade, the student should contact an adult to aid him or her with the task in question.

You guys might think that my insistence on very small knives is extreme, but I think that if knives are to be reintroduced to schools, that is the only way to go. As was said earlier, knives with obvious self defense potential do not belong in school. There are too many immature students who would be tempted to do something dumb if they found themselves in a confrontation.

I know some people will argue that differences should be made between good students and troublemakers, but it is my opinion that how students are defined is often very subjective. For instance, a black boy in baggy pants and a backwards cap is seen as a gang member. A white boy similarly dressed is wearing teenage fashion. A kid from a "good family" has a disciplinary problem and it is explained away by the difficulties he is facing because of his parents divorce. A poor kid from the wrong side of the tracks is simply branded as a menace to public safety. The people who these distinctions are not necessarily bad people or consciously predjudiced, but the fact remains that we all have certain preconceptions that come into play when dealing with different groups. Because of that I am in favor of fairly firm guidelines for behavior including the carrying knives.
 
I think that all schools should be privately owned and that the owners should have sole discretion on what is or is not permitted.Parents could then vote with their wallets on what makes a good school.I had the misfortune of attending a catholic military boarding school for a while in my youth and the fact that we prayed 50 times a day and had more guns than Brazil was never an issue,even with the neighbors.
 
Maybe KIDS shouldn't be allowed in school.
from the time I was 8 years old, I carried a knife- all the time. I even took an antique auto to school for show-and-tell!
even had Guns in the house without trigger-locks! In high school during hunting season, I had a shotgun in my car in the parking lot and everyone knew it.
But I NEVER even thought about assailing any little classmates.
Yeah, I know times change. But the knives (tools) haven't changed, so just maybe they aren't the problem.
The whole thing has gone so far beyond ridiculous, that I don't think there is any way to reasonably discuss this topic anymore.
I'm glad my kids are raised.
If anybody has the answers, let me know before the grandkids go to school.
I'm thinking home-schooling might be the only way for us to survive.
Sorry, but this topic kinda hit a raw nerve with me.

[This message has been edited by JW (edited 02-04-2000).]
 
Well, I'll have to make this post quick, as its about time for me to be getting back to school
smile.gif
.

For all the arguements of "Kids are less mature and more prone to violence" HAHAHAHA HA HA ha ha... ha..... ha.....ha. Us teenagers are free to carry knives anywhere we want but school. But yet no one see's us stabbing to death people whereever you look. Even without constant supervision we still are able to resist the urge to kill. And those who can't we have a special name for, "Criminals" we call them that because they don't care about the rules. But unfortunatly 95% of laws target these people and the vast majority of us get pulled along on our dog collors.

As for what Johan said, Lynch him!
wink.gif
. Banning knives of more than 2 inches of blade would be the saem as banning all but sub-compact cars in the parking lot. And of course because when people get behind the wheel of thier jeeps and trucks they are more likely to become violent. But of course honda drivers would never do that, and who needs more than that for the school parking lot anyway?

I personally feel that the state laws regaurding minors and knives should be the school laws regaurding minors with knives.

Sincerely,
Adam

------------------
Self improvement is a hobby of mine :).

 
I am a student of tennessee and I personally think that kids should not be allowed in schools, yep, my vote has to go against it. I mean not everyone knows safety and proper handling care of knives, and what if a kid CUTS HIMSELF!!!

I also know a couple of people that I would never let them get ahold of a knife because they are just too wild and act too crazy..

And if a kid is allowed to bring a knife to school then I think it should be like a pocket knife or some multi-tool..
 
Hey, I remembered a cool quote, and as long as were talking about school might as well say it
smile.gif
. "Knowledge is power and power corrupts. Go to school, be evil."

Not that I agree, but I sure love saying it
smile.gif
.

Mickey: I believe the main idea brought up by 90% of the people who posted here before you was "Criminals are the problem, not your average student. So thier is no point in making rules that punish your everyday student when criminals aren't going to follow them anyway"

Sincerely,
Adam

------------------
Self improvement is a hobby of mine :).

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top