What does Case need to do to survive?

[silenthunterstudios]

I had a short conversation about this with a store owner a couple days ago. What does Case need to do to survive in today's market? Small companies like Great Eastern have set the knife collecting world on it's ear. The "using" knife collectors. Lots of Case collectors take their knives and put them in a display case and leave them at that. The SS steel isn't as bad as I thought, but it's not as good as Buck's 420HC, imo. Their CV offerings are great, but a lot of knife users, used to the high end stainless steels out there, balk when they see their carbon blades get a little color. I bought an SS peanut for myself on my birthday just to switch over from CV to SS, and work on "resurrecting" my CV peanut. Their Tony Bose collaborations are great, but pricey and produced in low quantities. Their SS and CV collaborations are great, but you're in the same boat: SS users don't like them because they lose their edge after light use, and stainless users are a little mystified of the CV steels reaction to, well, air (I use A2 and O1, and have put a few patinas, both forced and through use, on a couple blades).

I believe that the Daniels family acquisition of Queen will either make or break Queen. Regardless of their Schatt and Morgan lines, and their production of other lines, they need to focus on fit and finish, and edges, to compete in the knife user market. Great Eastern is not free of the knife public's wrath either. The only complaint I have about GEC is their hard pulls, which get better over time, and offerings of late are easier to open.

Case has introduced a few new handle materials and patterns to shake things up. The carbon fiber line looks good, and goes well with traditional patterns. However, their modern line just looks out of place.

Camillus and Schrade were the workhorses of the American industry. Most working men I knew growing up had a Schrade knife in their pockets. As I got older, I learned the history of Camillus knives. The original companies are gone. All that remains are imitations.

For companies like Buck and Case to fold up and blow away, would be a big blow to the knife industry. Buck, however, was able to diversify. Their 3** series, the 110/112 and smaller versions, their 12* fixed blade series. Yellowhorse collaborations, custom shop pieces. Tactical collaborations etc. They are still here.

What can Case do? Probably work with more than three steels (CV, SS and 154CM). Their knives are cheaper than GEC/Queen, but they are still expensive to someone buying a working knife. Do we need a Case with, maybe D2 or O1 instead of CV? Do we need to upgrade SS from 420?? to 440C? Maybe even 440A? Is Buck taking care of Case's heat treating SS? Can they afford to upgrade their machines?

This little subforum, even the whole of Bladeforums, is not going to carry Case. We shouldn't be expected to. But what are some suggestions you'd like to see Case implement to drive some interest in their line?

 

[Modoc ED]

This little subforum, not even the whole of Bladeforums, is going to carry Case. We shouldn't be expected to. But what are some suggestions you'd like to see Case implement to drive some interest in their line?

This little subforum doesn't carry any company including GEC much less Case.

Case is doing just fine. There is plenty of interest in their line. They sell hundreds of thousands of knives each year.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

This little subforum doesn't carry any company including GEC much less Case.

Case is doing just fine. There is plenty of interest in their line. They sell hundreds of thousands of knives each year.

This is my impression as well. I think our little community here is but a small (& picky, and fanatical) fraction of their customer base. I collected (accumulated) a lot of Case knives for years, before I was even aware of the existence of BF or any other knife collectors' forums. Case has very cleverly found a marketing niche in the 'collecting for display' market, and they've been exploiting that for a very long time (generations). If that works well to subsidize the 'user' and 'knife nut' ends of the spectrum (like us), then I'm all for it. This is not to say I wouldn't mind seeing some upgrades in steel choices, or some refinement in their manufacturing techniques. But, whatever they're doing now, it seems to be keeping their ship afloat for now.

 

[DrPenguin]

I typed up a response to the OP twice and deleted it... didn't want to come off as demeaning to Case or fatalistic.

I honestly love the artistic side of Case. Over the decades they have made some of the most beautiful and eye catching traditional knives that it has ever been my pleasure to see. The problem that I see is that every one of those lovelies that make me salivate was manufactured as a likely EDC. They might have had gorgeous red bone but they were made to accompany a man through a hard day's work.

Now? I can't say that. And to me that is a huge problem. Every knife ~should~ be made with the intent that a man can choose to carry it every day for a decade or so without issue.

I hate to bring this up but my fiance and I purchased a beautiful little mini copperhead for her step father's birthday and I sharpened it before sending it along. In all my years of purchasing knives I have seldom seen a bigger mess. There were gaps you could toss a house cat through on the backsprings, a pitiful snap opening and closing, and worst of all the small blade hit the main blade so badly that it took me quite a few minutes to determine if it would knock the edge off. As it turned out only part of the bevel hit the top of the main so I went ahead and sharpened it.

This kind of thing just can't happen if you are looking to restore a reputation. Is Case the only one? No every single maker has their own pet faults that they repeat over and over and over. I love Case and I will cheer for them to come through but I think they need to up their price and increase their quality. It is obvious to me that they cannot put out the kind of quality that I had come to expect from Case at the price level they operate at.

I hope this doesn't hurt anyone's feelings or get me banned.

Will

 

[Rich S]

OK, let the flames fly- IMHO, Case has become the "beanie baby" of the knife world. Making every possible variations of everything to cater to the collector market. They need t o focus more on the users and lower their prices. They aren't going to compete with good quality Chinese/Japanese user knives when charging 3-4 times the price for a knife that will be used a lot and subject to abuse and lose. As I'm sure everyone has noticed, most of the AO's, liner locks, frame locks are made overseas and most (certainly not all) make fine users.

RIch S

 

[silenthunterstudios]

Let me say that I am not trying to flame, or start any arguments. I don't think that this thread has become antagonistic, and I don't want it to go down that path. I appreciate that everyone has shared their opinions in a respectful manner. If I offended anyone, I am sorry, that was not my intent. This is one of the best subforums on BF, and we're keeping it that way.

 

[Modoc ED]

I typed up a response to the OP twice and deleted it... didn't want to come off as demeaning to Case or fatalistic.

I honestly love the artistic side of Case. Over the decades they have made some of the most beautiful and eye catching traditional knives that it has ever been my pleasure to see. The problem that I see is that every one of those lovelies that make me salivate was manufactured as a likely EDC. They might have had gorgeous red bone but they were made to accompany a man through a hard day's work.

Now? I can't say that. And to me that is a huge problem. Every knife ~should~ be made with the intent that a man can choose to carry it every day for a decade or so without issue.

I hate to bring this up but my fiance and I purchased a beautiful little mini copperhead for her step father's birthday and I sharpened it before sending it along. In all my years of purchasing knives I have seldom seen a bigger mess. There were gaps you could toss a house cat through on the backsprings, a pitiful snap opening and closing, and worst of all the small blade hit the main blade so badly that it took me quite a few minutes to determine if it would knock the edge off. As it turned out only part of the bevel hit the top of the main so I went ahead and sharpened it.

This kind of thing just can't happen if you are looking to restore a reputation. Is Case the only one? No every single maker has their own pet faults that they repeat over and over and over. I love Case and I will cheer for them to come through but I think they need to up their price and increase their quality. It is obvious to me that they cannot put out the kind of quality that I had come to expect from Case at the price level they operate at.

I hope this doesn't hurt anyone's feelings or get me banned.

Will

Why would that get you banned? And why would it hurt anyone's feelings?

What floors me is that you sent a knife in such bad condition along to your fiance's step-father instead of sending it back for a replacement?

That was ONE of thousnads of knives that Case has made. As David said above; "..........our little community here is but a small (& picky, and fanatical) fraction of their (Case's) customer base." I'll bet there is someone out there somewhere who would be perfectly happy with the knife you described.

Case still makes a good working knife and they along with other brand knives are found in the pockets and tool boxes of a lot of people.

 

[supratentorial]

Really? Other than Buck, which has isn't really as dependent on sales of traditionals, Case seems to be at the top. I'm much more concerned with how GEC and Queen are going to survive. I think it's a smart move for Case to diversify though I hope they'll make better choices regarding their future tacti-cool knives. GEC has a very small niche... and at $50 for a sodbuster or $180 for a 3-spring stag whittler or $550 for a mammoth handled Whaler, it's a very small niche. The Daniels family has their work cut out for them if they acquire Queen. I'm rooting for them... but to be quite frank, I think Rough Rider et al will continue to capture a large percent of the market.... with Buck doing fine... Case continuing as one of the most collected and the others catering to a small niche market.

 

[Modoc ED]

Let me say that I am not trying to flame, or start any arguments. I don't think that this thread has become antagonistic, and I don't want it to go down that path. I appreciate that everyone has shared their opinions in a respectful manner. If I offended anyone, I am sorry, that was not my intent. This is one of the best subforums on BF, and we're keeping it that way. Modoc, you are right. We certainly do not carry any company or maker in this little corner of the internet. I re-read my comments, and edited them to illustrate what I meant.

I didn't think for a second that you were trying to flame Case or start any arguments and I don't see how you have offended anyone. I know I can be a bit blunt in my responses sometimes and I hope I didn't offend you with my answer. That said, I still don't think Case needs to change a thing. They are doing just fine. All companies have a lemon slip through from time to time and when they are purchased by a member of this forum, they are subject to some pretty harsh reviews.

Thanks for starting the thread.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

Maybe survive is the wrong word. Thrive?

 

[Modoc ED]

OK, let the flames fly- IMHO, Case has become the "beanie baby" of the knife world. Making every possible variations of everything to cater to the collector market. They need t o focus more on the users and lower their prices. They aren't going to compete with good quality Chinese/Japanese user knives when charging 3-4 times the price for a knife that will be used a lot and subject to abuse and lose. As I'm sure everyone has noticed, most of the AO's, liner locks, frame locks are made overseas and most (certainly not all) make fine users.RIch S

I hate to tell ya but this wasn't meant to be a "Flame Case" thread by the OP.

Case knives priced too high????? I don't know where you're shopping but for my .02¢ I'd think you might want to find a new dealer. You should be able to find Case knives at very very low prices - heck, even free with some promotional deals at some types of stores. I just bought a CV Case 3347 Stockman for under a 30-dollar bill. It doesn't get much better than that. Yes, you can buy a Rough Rider at a cheaper cost but I've noticed an increase in prices of knives coming from the Asian market lately. It won't be long before they catch up in price with Case.

 

[DrPenguin]

Why would that get you banned? And why would it hurt anyone's feelings?

What floors me is that you sent a knife in such bad condition along to your fiance's step-father instead of sending it back for a replacement?

That was ONE of thousnads of knives that Case has made. As David said above; "..........our little community here is but a small (& picky, and fanatical) fraction of their (Case's) customer base." I'll bet there is someone out there somewhere who would be perfectly happy with the knife you described.

Case still makes a good working knife and they along with other brand knives are found in the pockets and tool boxes of a lot of people.

I'm not too sure of the rules of the forum so I try to make sure the tone of my posts doesn't unnecessarily offend anyone. I enjoy talking knives with everyone here and don't want to come off as pushy or brash either.

We were under some pretty tight time constraints and wanted to make sure the knife made it to him before his birthday. As far as the aesthetics went the knife was gorgeous if you were looking at the front or the back... turn it on its side though and it was a mess. And as you guessed someone not a knife knut turned out to be very happy with the knife. Her step father sent me a note telling me the thing was the sharpest knife he'd ever had and he loved the thing (I think it was maybe the second or third knife he's ever owned). It made me smile as I take pride in my sharpening and was glad to help him out.

I just don't want anyone to think I am unloading on Case. I really do love their designs and hope they can keep the ship upright. But if I were made CEO of that company for a year I can tell you that I would try to recapture the old magic. I'd commission a set of maybe a half dozen old patterns a year and run a limited number of maybe 100 at maybe two or three times normal cost. Red bone (like that in the old knives) and CV and make sure every single knife was as close to perfect as possible. Use modern methods to get tolerances close. Use new technology and new jigs to get the fit right. And after I got those 100 right try and work in as much of those methods as I could.

To my mind Case has a lot of good will from the knife carrying community and they should not settle for being 'somewhere in the pack' when it comes to quality.

Will

 

[Railsplitter]

I agree with the comments that Case is doing fine and they don't need to change a thing. I must admit that I was a bit concerned when I first heard about their Tec-X line. I thought it might be an act of desperation but I'm not too worried about it now.

Regarding some of the quality issues we experience, I think those of us that are fed up with it are the minority. We see, read, and hear about it too often and it irritates us because we are knife enthusiasts. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the average user might buy a knife once every ten years or longer. If he/she gets a dud it's not that big of a deal to send it to Case because they only have to do it once. Some might even brag to their friends about the great service they got from Case's customer service department. The fact that they had to send the knife back doesn't bother them as much as it bothers us because it's an isolated incident. And then we have the average users who do get a quality knife on the first try.

I know there are a lot of folks that collect Case knives. I don't know the statistics but my guess is that the collectors are vastly outnumbered by the average users who just want a decent pocket knife. To many of them (and to many of us as well) Case is the place to get it.

 

[pertinux]

On a broader level, I do wonder how all these companies will continue (or fail) to adapt and win new customers, now that the last generations susceptible to a specific kind of nostalgia (wanting "Pawpaw's knife") are passing through.

It's an eye-opener, reading through GEC's production totals each year from 2006 through last year, their exponential growth in numbers of knives per year. I love what they've done so far, and am curious to see where and when they determine their ideal size/production for sustainability (and hopefully, thriving) in the longer run.

I quickly tire of Case's pattern silliness to feed the Collector Monster they've embraced as their bread-and-butter, requiring them to constantly mix jigging patterns and bone colors without ever "matching," ie, repeating a combination that leaves already-invested collectors distraught.

Except when Case produces a new combination I like, of course.

~ P.

 

[Will Power]

No knife company is a sacred-cow here, we need to share our various experiences in order to gain a better perspective.

Most of my CASE knives have been good and have pleased me, a few have been under par including a much more expensive model, this disappoints but overall my experiences have been fine. I don't hold with the collecting mind that wants all the same colours or serial numbers, various rather kitschy lines etc and park them in a display cabinet never to be used or even handled. It hardly matters in that situation if fit&finish is poor as they are immobile exhibits, but, many people like this thing apparently and it finances the company (provided they don't become complacent) OK.

Queen Cutlery has made some of my favourite knives, but I've had some very bad examples of workmanship from them as well. If that kind of Russian roulette approach to QC continues, then its days are numbered. They produce far less than CASE does.

GEC has pleased me immensely, but I know it has its rogues too. Their knives cost more but they seem well worth it and, they appear to sell most of their stuff reasonably quickly. Still small volume compared to CASE though, so their position could be more vulnerable.

I don't think CASE is in a serious plight at all, but it could get to it if it starts bean counting and ignores investment in equipment/credibility. These are of course, business decisions for them to take. I do think, but I admit I have no tangible evidence, that the internet, growth of forums has helped Traditional knife makers and has extended interest in and accessibility to these knives, saved them from potential obscurity or marginalisation.

Thanks, Will

 

[mnblade]

I've said it before: Case should offer a custom shop option. If I want Johnny Case handles on a CV knife I should be a be able to pay (a bit extra) for that. Where is the down side for Case? They pocket a profit before the knife is even assembled.

-- Mark

 

[FarmKid]

Case knives is tha staple of the working man. I think society has put a kink in the knife industries. U can't pull out a knife in public unless someone screams weapon. In the old days everybody carried a knife. They are tools but to city folk when an old feller pulls out a case trapper out of his overalls to cut tape off a shopping buggy wheel everybody is on edge around. I love case knives and I'm not much of a collector and I use my knives hard. I don't worry bout cracks blade wobble bc in a few months it's going to b in a much rougher state. In my opinion I wish case would bring back sum older patterns. I don't have a GEC just bc of the price. I ain't putting that much money in a knife to destroy and I'm not a fan of puttin em in a display case either.

 

[Brasso3]

I actually prefer Case because of their stainless steel. While I have some knives with "super" steel, I don't really like it. Holds an edge great....if and when you can get it sharp in the first place. Once it's dull again, you need a diamond stone to even think about getting the edge back.

The cheaper steels may get dull faster, but sharpen back up a lot faster and easier too. I prefer that option.

 

[BITEME]

I think they need to do a lot more collaborations,it's working for the big three and I think it would be a breath of fresh air.......I still love alot of their offerings just my .02¢

 

[supratentorial]

On a broader level, I do wonder how all these companies will continue (or fail) to adapt and win new customers, now that the last generations susceptible to a specific kind of nostalgia (wanting "Pawpaw's knife") are passing through....
~ P.

I think that's a good point. It seems to have affected the prices of some vintage knives.