What does Case need to do to survive?

[Stich2442]

I've said it before: Case should offer a custom shop option. If I want Johnny Case handles on a CV knife I should be a be able to pay (a bit extra) for that. Where is the down side for Case? They pocket a profit before the knife is even assembled.

-- Mark

I agree, I have often thought about buying a knife with a handle scale I like and sending it in to have the blades replaced with CV, even if they charged $, CV choices are too limited.

 

[Lycosa]

Would offering different steels and handle options sell more knives? I'd say yes.
Good thread.
Rolf

 

[Vanguard41xx]

They should bring back older/different patterns, to widen their product line. That is why I like GEC...

 

[supratentorial]

According to the link below, each pattern from Case's limited edition is 3000 or less.

http://www.wrcase.com/special_programs/xx_limited_edition/

I saw something on Mike's site that GEC produced 1,500 knives in 2006. If those numbers are correct, the total number of GEC knives produced in 2006 was 1/2 the number of a single limited edition pattern produced by Case.

Does anyone have a source for the total production numbers from Case, Queen, GEC, Canal Street?? I could find individual production numbers but not the total of all knives produced.

 

[richstag]

Plain and simple I won't buy a case knife unless its a case/bose. I'm the type that would rather spend more for a much better knife. In my eyes GEC has the edge over case in every single aspect. I tend to leave price out of it when both options are affordable.

I'm not comparing a 30$ Case to a 5k$ custom here.

With that said, I think there are plenty of people happy with the materials, fit and finish, heat treat etc provided by case.

Remember, this is coming from a guy who usually only dishes out cash on USA made knives.

Its not Case that keeps me from buying from them, its GEC, Boker, Buck and even Queen and others.

I think they are fine just as they are but they won't get money from this demanding fellow that knows what he's looking for in a knife.

Kevin

P.S. No one should feel bad for not supporting Case. If they don't make knives up to ur standards and wants then that's just fine IMHO.

 

[henryhide]

Make their products with the same quality that they did in the past.

 

[stevomiller]

Investment NOW instead of later in better mfg equipment and better mfg/QC practices would go a long way to keeping them thriving. Case appears to be healthy at the moment and that is when these steps should be taken. If they wait for lost market share, etc, to really impact their bottom line then it will be too late~ both time wise and money wise.

As for materials I would like to see them add an upgrade to the TruSharp stainless. 440B or AUS 8 or something similar would be fine and would still be blankable, would offer an upgrade in performance without alienating the traditional user market for their knives by either radical price increase or sharpening issues.

 

[Voodoosix]

Case prob doesnt need to do anything for a while, Case is like the American Victorinox. i like them well enough for what they are but im not paying some of the ridicules prices they fetch for the "nicer" ones. i just passed on a pearl handled mini copperhead for $110, why get that when i can get a pearl Queen #46 for $70 and have a much better knife?

Case has good brand recognition, like Kleenex, scotch tape and Ziplock bags.

 

[zippofan]

I do like the "exotic" blade steel options from Case, like the BG-42 in my Slim Lock, and an ATS-34 Barlow I have on the way. That isn't to say I don't like Tru-Sharp or CV, I just like the additional choices. I don't care about Case making a 'tactical' with supersteel, though Buck has done a nice job making knives other than the 110 and traditional slipjoints. Boker too seems to have shifted more of its German production to modern folders and put a lot of traditional patterns in an outsourced model. Modern style folders didn't save Camillus or Schrade, so I'm not sure Case will have success with them either, time will tell. I don't like them but maybe others will and will know Case for an entirely different type of knife in the future.

Something I don't understand about the Zippo/Case combination though. Zippo had adapted to their loss of market (people quitting smoking) by making "Collectables of the Year", which IMO sold very well for them. All of a sudden they stopped, killed off the Zippo Click Collector's Club and spread themselves thin with dozens and dozens of different artworks on their three basic case styles (Regular, Slim, Vintage). They also brought out low quality butane 'candle' lighters made outside of the US.
Then on the other hand, Case specializes in "collectable" patterns and limits them by putting them "in the vault", and has an active collector's club. I'm not sure I have a lot of confidence in Zippo management right now, seems sort of schizophrenic to me.

Someone mentioned a "Case Custom Shop", I really like that idea. Buck seems to have success with it, and so does Fender and Gibson guitars.

JMHO...

 

[Curtis_Lowe]

I think the wire edges on their tru sharp turn a lot of people off their stainless. They should change their tru sharp from 420hc to 440a or maybe a sandvik steel like 12c27. They also have some slight quality control issues that should be addressed. Yes, they have a good brand name but they need to start living up to the name again.

 

[pertinux]

Investment NOW instead of later in better mfg equipment and better mfg/QC practices would go a long way to keeping them thriving. Case appears to be healthy at the moment and that is when these steps should be taken. If they wait for lost market share, etc, to really impact their bottom line then it will be too late~ both time wise and money wise.

Yes, to all that you have written.

Someone mentioned a "Case Custom Shop", I really like that idea. Buck seems to have success with it, and so does Fender and Gibson guitars.

The problem for now is that Case already does have a "custom shop," as long as you're willing and able to order in quantities of 500 knives a pop. One of Case's biggest customers does exactly that, and relies on the resulting "exclusives" to set themselves apart. In other words, what's in place is working for Case and a prime customer, leaving little to no incentive to make such options available to the little people.

~ P.

 

[thawk]

They should bring back older/different patterns, to widen their product line...

I like this idea, and especially with some old fashioned pretty red bone and green bone that looks like the CASE XX and CASE XX USA vintages. I'd really favor some equal end cattle knives, stockman with punch blades, and some cool whittlers.

 

[markv]

I like this idea, and especially with some old fashioned pretty red bone and green bone that looks like the CASE XX and CASE XX USA vintages. I'd really favor some equal end cattle knives, stockman with punch blades, and some cool whittlers.

i second this idea.
some of the old Case patterns in CV were excellent knives.

you can add the four blade Congress pattern

buzz

 

[Rick]

Make their products with the same quality that they did in the past.

The fact that Case can still compete in today's global market with their low-cost domestic knives of more or less acceptable quality is quite an accomplishment. Unfortunately, they're forced to rely on various manufacturing shortcuts--tumbled blade finishes, boxy handle scales, relatively loose tolerances, etc.--in order to keep their prices in line with consumer expectations. The skilled domestic craftsmen, time and tooling needed to produce '60s-era (or earlier) quality and consistency today would drive their prices right through the roof and alienate their primary consumer base.

IMO, GEC's quality is generally up there with 'late '50s/early '60s Case knives, with the notable exception of their factory edges and polished blade finishes, and the average GEC is more than twice the price of a similar Case pattern. For my tastes, aside from the annual Old Dog collaborations, GEC has rendered modern Case knives largely irrelevant. The only regular production Case knives that interest me were made before man first set foot on the moon.

 

[Will Power]

One thing they could do is to get some quality photos of their actual knives on their website, rather than those artist impression drawings........

 

[neeman]

OK, let the flames fly- IMHO, Case has become the "beanie baby" of the knife world. Making every possible variations of everything to cater to the collector market. They need t o focus more on the users and lower their prices. They aren't going to compete with good quality Chinese/Japanese user knives when charging 3-4 times the price for a knife that will be used a lot and subject to abuse and lose. As I'm sure everyone has noticed, most of the AO's, liner locks, frame locks are made overseas and most (certainly not all) make fine users.

RIch S

Rich,

"beanie baby" of the knife world
Exactly!


That discribes marketing stratergy
They have focused strongly on the repeat buy collectors

Case is the strongest highest seller in the secondary market of collectors
Old Case comand high prices
And they continue to make sure they change thier lines often enough to create a scarcity or rarity

GEC is doing the same thing
Queen is not and trying to sell users, working knives


The market has changed forever
It was everyone carried a knife

Who carries a knife now adays?
And who carries slipjoints, not 'modern' knives
So the market now is repeat sale collectors

And Case is working it well

 

[midnight flyer]

I think that CASE needs to do what any manufacturing company of any age at any time in history needs to do. Adapt, change and innovate. They need to recognize a changing market and adjust their products to accommodate it.

This is classic marketing. Stale designs and spotty quality was the downfall of many a car maker since the '30s, and they continue to be a case study in how not to run a manufacturing company.

CASE has enough good will capital built up that we are all rooting for them based on their history of making fine cutlery. But I remember a very spirited conversation on another forum where a member had actually gone back and seen the inner workings of CASE. There is a dealer in this forum that has done the same. Both said it was a trip to the '20s with all the ancient, worn out machinery. As a woodworking contractor, I can tell you personally that you can't turn out good quality work with any speed with worn out machinery.

I am imagining a comparison of 80s General Motors products that were seviceable, but a poor value. Then along came Toyota etc. We sure made fun of those cars and called them every kind of name (their drivers too!) and thought they were all junk. They adapted to the American market, kept their quality up, invested in new plant and equipment and worked to introduce new designs and manufacturing techniques. We all know what GM did during that time.... and where Toyota has gone in the last 30 years.


I think it would be easy for CASE to get back to being an premium knife company. If GEC et. al, were able to establish themselves and a great fan base in such short order, that shows without question that there is a market for well built, quality knives, even at prices that are higher than market for similar models. If they keep selling the same old designs, the same old steels, and don't invest in new machinery and dies to make a more consistent product we may see them as the new "Franklin Mint Collectors Series of Knives".

I don't buy off on the argument that we are anal retentive, "type A" personalities that demand perfection, and that is the reason we criticize any maker. Blades that rub one another, very poor grinds, blades that won't close all the way, blades that literally break fingernails, scales that have gaps, blades that scrape the liners, assembled cases that you can easily see light through... not acceptable. (I am always astonished that folks that proudly post that they spent a couple to a few hours to get their new knives to be, well... as they should have been when you bought it.) Not when you can buy knives that suffer none of that for 20% of the price of one of the more poorly made specimens.

I think at this point the choice is theirs.

The good news is that they will do what they want, and we can vote with out wallets just like we did with GM.

Robert

 

[pinnah]

The market has changed forever
It was everyone carried a knife

Who carries a knife now adays?
And who carries slipjoints, not 'modern' knives
So the market now is repeat sale collectors

And Case is working it well

/\ /\ This! /\ /\

\/ \/ Not this. \/ \/

Case knives is tha staple of the working man.

I know a bunch of guys in the trades and while many of them carry a knife, none of them carry a tradtional of any sort. They are all carrying modern locking folders with pocket clips.

The question that this raises in my mind is whether or not the collector's market is enough to sustain Case?

Who buys knifes is *the* question.

Workers are buying locking folders and I'm not even sure that Buck with their huge tradition in establishing that niche can become relevant to American workers again. IMO, they'll certainly have to try harder and be more concentrated about going after that market if they want to make in roads again. I don't know a single tradesman personally who carries a Buck. If any of them carry a brand name, it is likely to be CRKT, Syderco or Kershaw, all of which seem to have a good presence in hardware stores and such. Buck *might* get back to that market but Case would seem to have a very, very long way to go. To get there, I would think Case would need to pick some styles that will work for modern workers (not romantic ideas of workers of days past) and market them like crazy in places where workers shop. The carbon fiber family and the trapper lock might be good bets.

Hunters and fishers buy knives. But they buy big folders and fixed blades. I don't see this as Case's strength. My local Bass Pro Shop barely carries any Bucks and carries no large Case knifes. Same as above. Case would seem to have it's work cut out if they want reconnect with the American hunter and Buck seems to be in the lead here.

Camper, hikers and suburban home owners buy knives. But the SAK and multi-tool seem to reign supreme here. One of the brilliant things that Victorinox did a long time ago is that they decided to pursue utility instead of tradition. They've done it to excess, which is why I don't like them, but I'm less than 1 in 10. Most folks like the utility of the SAK and that's why they buy them. Would they buy a traditional 4 blade camper from Case? No way. An SAK has more useful tools on it and traditional 4 blade pattern isn't going to be enough.

One thing I wonder about is if a company like Case could expand the realm of "collectors". I wonder if, with advertising and marketing, they could reinvigorate the practice of carrying a small slip joint as a life-style statement. Could they reestablish the norm of largely urban/suburban men carrying a small knife again? Could you imagine your local Macy's having a mini-Case knife display next to their wrist watch display? I can almost see that.

 

[Stich2442]

I work in the trades and use a Opinel and Boker stockman, sure guys carry other knives, but when they need to do a precision cut they come to me, I also have bought and given two or three Opinels out to guys who didn't know where to buy one.

I should also add this was long before I ever heard of BladeForums, it's a diverse world some guys like slipjoints some guys like one handed openers, some guys like carbon, some guys like stainless, some guys drink Budlight, some guys Chimay.......
C'est la vie

 

[Doug Add]

I wonder if, with advertising and marketing, they could reinvigorate the practice of carrying a small slip joint as a life-style statement. Could they reestablish the norm of largely urban/suburban men carrying a small knife again? Could you imagine your local Macy's having a mini-Case knife display next to their wrist watch display? I can almost see that.

This is a brilliant idea Dave. Maybe you should pitch it, and become a consultant to Case!