What does "Super Steel" mean to you?

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RandomAyes

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When I see the term "super steel" I tend to think of particle metallurgy stainless: Crucible S90V, Carpenter CTS20CP, Bohler M390, Hitachi ZDP189, Takefu Super Gold, Daido Cowry-X, etc.

But then I remember alloys that are missing one or both of those traits (stainless+PM) yet possess some kind of advantage over run-o-the-mill steels: CPM-M4, Super Blue, BG42, 3V, INFI, H1, etc. They excel in at least one performance category, but not all.

Then I can't help but wonder who coined "super steel" and when. Was it back in the 80's when 440C was the standard of cutlery grade stainless? Was 154CM the original "super steel" ? AFAIK it was the first stainless to be used in large quantities as an upgrade to 440C. If so then ATS-34 would be a "super steel" too, right? And surely VG-10 which many folks prefer over 154CM/ATS-34.

440C was and still is a vast improvement over plain carbon steel in terms of corrosion. And it's superior to 420 in terms of edge holding. At one time good old 440C was as "super" as you could get.

This is where I always end up, in a semantic query. Is "super steel" just a relative term having no meaning outside of a specific comparison? Or is it a vague reference to the current state of the art? I think it's generally synonymous with "New & Improved" but is the emphasis on the former or the latter?

What do you think?
 
I think it is a term that people use when talking about the newest and most cutting edge (no pun intended) steels. I think you nailed it when you said that it is a relative term. That's just my take on it however.
 
To me, 'Super Steel' is anything that is a bear to sharpen on regular stones.
 
For me, it would be the best all-rounder. Stainless is a prerequisite.

I think what's "super" will change as new and improved steels are introduced to the cutlery market, or as old steels with the potential to perform great in blades are repurposed from their intended tasks(mostly plastics molding). S30V was relatively "super" in its days, particularly with a Bos heat treat. S90V, S110V, and S125V had noticeably blew every other steel out of the water in terms of edge holding.

Nowadays, I feel Elmax and M390 are true "super steels", offering high hardness, good edge stability, outstanding corrosion resistance, high wear resistance, and improved toughness(for Elmax at least) over S30V. Call it S30V on steroids if you wish. Aside from the price, I have thus far seen little downsides to those steels.
 
Super steel= Forged 1095, and/or W2.
"Super" steels are good for folders. Once we learn how to sharpen the blade, "super" becomes irrelevant. Seriously,...few forged knives that I have (1095, W2) perform much better then any INFI, or S30V in "any day, any tasks" scenario. Super steel meant to me that I am going to pay a lots (TOO MUCH) of money for blade that will have a questionable performance,.... but I will be able to join the "club", get myself "new" name and make imaginary pic. about myself,..... aaand I can pretend that I am drunk while I am posting about my new "super" limited "addiction" knife. You get all that, aaand a "Knife" for ooonnllyyyyy $XXX.00:), or even $XXXX.00.
LOL. I am ready to get blasted, I can feel it coming:)
 
IMHO a super steel is indeed the best allrounder, but with the emphasis on what matters most, which (to me, but I'm not that unique I think) means: What kind of edge does it take and how well does it keep it? How hard is it to touch up or bring back? How does it perform with differing geometries and profiles?
I hate it when a blade chips. But I want it to be as hard as possible. I take care of my knives, even in the field. So in my experience, I will designate CPM-M4 a supersteel. Yes, it's prone to rust, but not if I own it. :D
I own most if not all the current premium steels, and actually, they all can do more than I usually ask of them. But the obscene edge M4 takes and holds raises it above the rest, for me.
Can't wait to get my hands on some Elmax, I hear it rivals or even exceeds it. :cool:
 
When I am really impressed with the way my knife functions I often remark,

"D@^^n, that is some super steel!!!"
 
I think a super steel is a steel that excels above most other steels (say 75th percentile roughly?) in one or more categories, for example the most common would be edge holding, so in this category, 10v, s90v, k390, 20cp, rex121 would be a super steel because of their edge holding abilities. Another category, is toughness, in which steels like INFI, 3V, or S7 I would consider super steels. You could even say H1 was a super steel because of its super rust resistance. Also as new and in some ways better steels come out, some steels may lose their status as "super" just like when S30V or 154cm was released it was considered super, but has since been surpassed by steels like M390 or Elmax, so that now while its still considered a premium or standard high end steel (you wouldn't pay $400 for a sebenza made in aus-4 would you?) I would also choose steels that excel in the category of knife it is made in, I wouldn't want an ZDP-189 or S90V sword because it lacks toughness that is demanded in something that large and for the use it will see. IMO, in a folder or small fixed, normally I value edge holding ability, S90V, M390, etc (unless of course its a "Hard use" folder like a strider, then toughness becomes more important so 3V, m4, elmax (all good edge holding but also good toughness) In a 5.5" hard use fixed blade toughness comes more into play that's where I will still want good edge holding, thats where I want M4, 3V, SR-101. In something like a large chopper, thats where I toughness becomes more important than edge holding and I want S7, INFI, 3V etc. Of course there are always specialty blades like dive knives where rust resistance is most important, this is where H1 would be a super steel while 52100 or Rex 121 would not be a super steel for this application.
 
cro91 said:
Super steel= Forged 1095, and/or W2.
"Super" steels are good for folders. Once we learn how to sharpen the blade, "super" becomes irrelevant. Seriously,...few forged knives that I have (1095, W2) perform much better then any INFI, or S30V in "any day, any tasks" scenario. Super steel meant to me that I am going to pay a lots (TOO MUCH) of money for blade that will have a questionable performance,.... but I will be able to join the "club", get myself "new" name and make imaginary pic. about myself,..... aaand I can pretend that I am drunk while I am posting about my new "super" limited "addiction" knife. You get all that, aaand a "Knife" for ooonnllyyyyy $XXX.00:), or even $XXXX.00.
LOL. I am ready to get blasted, I can feel it coming:)
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Don't be ridiculous. Emerson customs cost upwards of $1,000 and they all use plain jane 154CM.
 
philwar said:
IMHO a super steel is indeed the best allrounder, but with the emphasis on what matters most, which (to me, but I'm not that unique I think) means: What kind of edge does it take and how well does it keep it? How hard is it to touch up or bring back? How does it perform with differing geometries and profiles?
I hate it when a blade chips. But I want it to be as hard as possible. I take care of my knives, even in the field. So in my experience, I will designate CPM-M4 a supersteel. Yes, it's prone to rust, but not if I own it. :D
I own most if not all the current premium steels, and actually, they all can do more than I usually ask of them. But the obscene edge M4 takes and holds raises it above the rest, for me.
Can't wait to get my hands on some Elmax, I hear it rivals or even exceeds it. :cool:
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Elmax won't outcut CPM-M4. M390 might outcut M4 at Rc 61+.

I would suggest the Speedform II to test Elmax with. I snagged one earlier this week for $64 shipped:D.

I think not having to sharpen S90V for 3 months while cutting nothing but cardboard with it makes it pretty super duper(not gay):thumbup:.
 
super steel to me in order of best to worst of the super steels is cpm m4, cpm 9v, cpm 3v, infi, cpm s35vn, cpm s30v, vg-10, cpm 154cm, 154cm. no lower then that.

i think super steel is going to have a different meaning to every one and it all depends on what you want in a steel.

like me i like really tough steels then i want good edge holding then stainless is third.

so for me i think the best super steel out there is cpm 3v, cpm m4, and infi
 
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RandomAyes said:
Is "super steel" just a relative term having no meaning outside of a specific comparison? Or is it a vague reference to the current state of the art? I think it's generally synonymous with "New & Improved" but is the emphasis on the former or the latter?
Click to expand...

To me, the term "super steel" is just another bullet point in the marketing arsenal.
There is no such thing as super steels, just super knives.
The greatest, or lousiest knives, are a reflection of manufacturers/makers skill and experience.

A supposed "super steel" will be anything but super if the heat treat isn't dialed in.
Conversely, a steel that isn't marketed as super, can and will perform beyond expectations if heat treated to perfection.

It's all chemistry; from the steel formation to the heat treat protocols.
When it comes down to brass tacks, the proof, or lack of it, lies in the finished product and not the raw materials.
 
Buck_110 said:
It's all chemistry; from the steel formation to the heat treat protocols.
When it comes down to brass tacks, the proof, or lack of it, lies in the finished product and not the raw materials.
Click to expand...
This is all taken for granted. We all assume, for discussion's sake, that all makers and manufacturers know their stuff, and the only variable is the steel.
 
cro91 said:
...
"Super" steels are good for folders. Once we learn how to sharpen the blade, "super" becomes irrelevant.
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Super interesting statament, because for most of the people I know who are efficient with sharpening, super steels become more relevant. There isn't much to gain from having super steel at 65 HRC with 40 inclusive angle. Apparently, besides learning how to sharpen the blade, one has to learn how to benefit from super steels, and perhaps pick the right steel for the right job. As in, CPM 10V is not good in choppers, and so on...

cro91 said:
Seriously,...few forged knives that I have (1095, W2) perform much better then any INFI, or S30V in "any day, any tasks" scenario. Super steel meant to me that I am going to pay a lots (TOO MUCH) of money for blade that will have a questionable performance,....
Click to expand...
Seriously? As far as I can tell, you have not used neither INFI, nor S30V, so how do you know, or why should this comment be taken seriously? As a reality check, go to any major custom knives website, and you'll see folders from 440C selling for $$$ or more.
 
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