What does "Super Steel" mean to you?

The term "super steel" is meaningless to me, except as advertising.
 
philwar said:
This is all taken for granted. We all assume, for discussion's sake, that all makers and manufacturers know their stuff, and the only variable is the steel.
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Yes, exactly. HT specifics are a completely different can of worms. Some people have "broken the curve" with regard to HT for a specific alloy. Granted, Bob Dozier's D2 is a factor in our understanding of what D2 is capable of, but mostly it represents a high water mark. I'm more interested in the big picture.
 
It's sort of like saying the big hand is on the 12 and the little hand is on the 10, when you mean ten o'clock.
 
I usually use the term to describe steel types that go to great lengths to improve edge retention (since that is the attribute I consider most valuable in a blade). CPM S90V being a good example. Yes, my description does require that the steel be uncommon. S30V was a super steel when it came out, but has now been so readily adopted that I consider it to be the "average" and you must improve on that level of performance to attain "super steel" status.
 
LOL. Not going to answer this one. Do not judge people by the low post count:) Orignal Battle Mistress is INFI,...If you check my recent post, you'll find "few" "supersteel" users that I have used for years before I decided to dump them. INFI is not super at all, except for "super" thick grind. 3V (by Ferhman) is as super as it gets. I'll give him credit for that.


Gator97 said:
Super interesting statament, because for most of the people I know who are efficient with sharpening, super steels become more relevant. There isn't much to gain from having super steel at 65 HRC with 40 inclusive angle. Apparently, besides learning how to sharpen the blade, one has to learn how to benefit from super steels, and perhaps pick the right steel for the right job. As in, CPM 10V is not good in choppers, and so on...


Seriously? As far as I can tell, you have not used neither INFI, nor S30V, so how do you know, or why should this comment be taken seriously? As a reality check, go to any major custom knives website, and you'll see folders from 440C selling for $$$ or more.
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Like said before, I think the term "supersteel" is always temporary, since it's the latest improvement over the supersteel of the past...

Regards,

Andre Tiba - Brazil
 
IMHO Super steel is just a term describing steel with higher than "current average and high end steels". As such it is constantly changing. Not nearly as fast as I'd like, but still is.
Sure, dealers and marketing abuse the term all they can/want, but that doesn't mean I can't have my own concept.


cro91 said:
...Do not judge people by the low post count:)...
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I didn't. I was going by your comment, that "as you become more efficient with sharpening steels become irrelevant". IMHO it's rather ridiculous. No sharpening steel will make 1095, forged or not, to perform as well as CPM 3V for heavy duty knives, or match CPM 10V for abrasive materials, especially that 1095 99% of the time gets hardened to 58-60HRC, which is more suited for large blades than high efficiency light cutters.
 
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This is where I always end up, in a semantic query. Is "super steel" just a relative term having no meaning outside of a specific comparison? Or is it a vague reference to the current state of the art? I think it's generally synonymous with "New & Improved" but is the emphasis on the former or the latter?

What do you think?
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In my opinion ( from what I have seen on forums..) , "super steel" is one of those phrases knife people like to throw around to make their particular poison sound better than everyone else's. It seems to me that a good portion of what goes on in these knife related forums is non stop one-upmanship and that if you have a knife with "super steel!!111" then you are just a tad cooler than your peers. :)
I say the above because often I am jaded when it comes to the monotonous discussion about which steel is better than that steel and why the other steel is actually not good at all becuase it has .0010 less gastromium than the steel XXX uses in their knife that never needs sharpening or will never break.

To me "super steel" is the steels I like for my applications. The steels that work for me , they do what I ask and I am pleased with the results.

My SUPER STEELS are VG10 and 154CM, O1 , 10X5's , trailed closely by ATS34 and somewhere in there AUS8/10 gets an honorable mention. I also have grown to enjoy CPMM4 and M390 , perhaps over time I will like them even more.

Tostig
 
Gator97 said:
IMHO Super steel is just a term describing steel with higher than "current average and high end steels". As such it is constantly changing. Not nearly as fast as I'd like, but still is.
Sure, dealers and marketing abuse the term all they can/want, but that doesn't mean I can't have my own concept.



I didn't. I was going by your comment, that "as you become more efficient with sharpening steels become irrelevant". IMHO it's rather ridiculous. No sharpening steel will make 1095, forged or not, to perform as well as CPM 3V for heavy duty knives, or match CPM 10V for abrasive materials, especially that 1095 99% of the time gets hardened to 58-60HRC, which is more suited for large blades than high efficiency light cutters.
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I have been watching this thread and stayed out of just to see what the responses would be, most of them have been interesting to the point I wonder were some are getting their information from. LOL

However your post is the best sofar and in line with what I would have posted. :D

I don't use the term Super steel personally but I will for my response... kinda. ;)

In general they are Steels that offer a large performance advantage over the more normally used steels that we typically see.

Performance advantage will differ from what the use of the knives will be and that will change depending on use.

Wear Resistance, Toughness, Corrosion resistance, Impact Resistance or a combination of some or all.

Most of the True Super Steels are not usually avaible in production Knives except in maybe Limited runs due to manufacturing issues and or availability due to the difficulty producing these steels in quantities and dimensions to make knife blades out of. They are usually avaible only in Customs.

And it's so true that no amount of hoping, wanting, BS, wishing, HYPE, Heat Treatment or method of manufacture will ever turn steels like 1095 and 5160 into steels like 3V and 10V depending on intended use, it just won't happen in the real world. Anyone that says different is completely full of crap and or is trying to sell you something.

There are tons of Urban Legends and just complete BS floating around on the net ect about steels.

There are different steels for different uses or some steels are better suited for certain things than others are.

There are a ton of variables of why certian steels are used in knives that we see, as we all know there are variations of use, wants, needs, cost, and other criteria of why they are used.
 
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Moonberrys said:
I think it is a term that people use when talking about the newest and most cutting edge (no pun intended) steels. I think you nailed it when you said that it is a relative term. That's just my take on it however.
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It was me that coined that phrase back in the late-1960's. The steel was getting markedly better with each new knife I'd save up for and one day after sticking my knife into a tree (throwing) I told the neighborhood gang "d*amn these new knifemakers are really putting out some super steel!" :D

Just so y'all know it was me that coined the phrase. Carry on, I'm going to read the thread now. :cool:
 
I like steels with copious quantities of Vanadium carbides. Conventional smelting limits the inclusion of Vanadium carbides to 2% (BG-42). The Particle Metallurgy process allows up to 12.5% Vanadium (CPM S125V). These Vanadium carbides have HRC of 82 usually suspended in a blade with an HRC of 60. The fineness of the grain structure is much improved by the Particule Metallurgy process. The wear resistance of knife steels is greatly enhanced by the inclusion Vanadium carbides. The addition of Niobium carbides, which are some of the strongest carbide formers, boosts the performance to a new level (CPM S 110 V-3% Niobium). I have blades in S30, S60, S90, and S110, and I'm here to say that higher is better. S90 is so wear resistant that it has to be heated to red hot before it can be sheared. An S90 knife that I sharpened in 2008 has needed no further tuning. My S60 blades are not far behind. My S110 blades are too new for a track record, but the preliminary indications are that they are going to make the rest look like 420 J. I have to mention that the Stellite blades, 6B and 6K, are hanging right in there, but they are virtually devoid of steel and sell for $100 and $265 per pound respectively. Are we having fun yet?
 
Super steel, is the label that knife nuts and steel aficionado's put on steels that have desirable properties above and beyond run of the mill steels.

What's interesting is that the "super" steels of the past have frequently become run of the mill in knives made today.
 
No such thing. we could say steels with 2.5%, or even 3% carbon. We could say 20% or higher carbide volume, or working hardness over 63 Rc, or notched impact toughness greater than 75 J, or some other arbitrary metrics. It isn't an industry accepted term, so it means nothing. I started a super steel thread a couple years ago, and people ended up listing 1095 and D2.
 
Cynic2701 said:
Super steel, is the label that knife nuts and steel aficionado's put on steels that have desirable properties above and beyond run of the mill steels.

What's interesting is that the "super" steels of the past have frequently become run of the mill in knives made today.
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What's even funnier is that most of the steels that have been around for 15+ years are just know starting to get used in knife blades...

S90V has been around longer than S30V and still isn't used in any standard production model....
 
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