What does the blade steel actually cost?

B

Beelzebubba

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Oct 14, 2004
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83
I'm trying to find comparative knife steel prices, like for pieces of 6"x2"x1/8" of every type of steel.
I keep hearing that the type of steel can make big $ difference. Show me how much a blade sized piece actually costs! I can't find that one anywhere.
Yeah, I know that machineability and such has to be factored in, but I'm talking bare essentials. An extra ten minutes machining shouldn't cost that much...
All I hear is why I should spend more, always more, and I suspect that we are being played!
 
An extra 10 minutes machining ? I am not sure if that's accurate but I am not a machinist or knife maker. I have heard one knife maker describe using 3V in polite terms that amounted to it being pure hell in wear and tear on his furnace and tools as well as much more time consuming in labor. Generally not easy relative to other common non CPM steels. Oh and the steel is more expensive too but I have a feeling that's the least of the problems.

My opinion probably not very much until it's time to make something out of it (blade steel.) Remember I am not even a rank amateur in knife making so take it with a grain of salt. I am curious about the answer.
 
You are not "being played." It is not just machinability, but different heat treat protocols, grinding protocols, steel size constraints, and many other things that eat up consumables and time, in addition to wear and tear on humans and machines. Not to mention tool life and cost of raw materials, up to and including alloying elements and where they come from.

Premium steels cost more, no question. On a small folder or fixed blade the cost for the blade alone (raw material) can easily range from a couple of dollars to $40-$50, or much more. Don't forget to factor in shipping and abrasives. Believe it.

Beelzebubba said:
I'm trying to find comparative knife steel prices, like for pieces of 6"x2"x1/8" of every type of steel.
I keep hearing that the type of steel can make big $ difference. Show me how much a blade sized piece actually costs! I can't find that one anywhere.
Yeah, I know that machineability and such has to be factored in, but I'm talking bare essentials. An extra ten minutes machining shouldn't cost that much...
All I hear is why I should spend more, always more, and I suspect that we are being played!
Click to expand...

Sam😎👍👍
 
If you truly feel you are being played, then simply stick to a softer and cheaper steel. Something not mentioned is the time and cost that goes into developing a steel and refining heat treatments. There is a learning curve to working with a new material which is time consuming and material extensive. Also a newer maker isn’t charging what a well known maker may charge. Seniority typically earns more in any job. Some steels will go through more belts than another, etc. If you really think all the steels require the same amount of time to work with, you really should order some different ones and try shaping and grinding them yourself.

To be honest, I find your statement about being played insulting to the craftsmen who turn a piece of steel into a functioning tool. Maybe you are just trying to stir the pot. Oh- and no, I am not a maker, I just appreciate what they do.
 
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This thread asked a question. The differences of opinion were real. But "what the forum will bear" is another matter.

helobite said:
Thank you for the source. I went to Alpha Knife Supply and examined the price differences between different steels. The prices differences are real, but whether the price represents cost of production, or "what the market will bear" is another matter.
Click to expand...
 
If you are referring to production knife companies, they purchase steel in bulk, not small individual pieces. So the Price of a 6"x2"x1/8" piece doesn't really relate to the cost of what a production company pays for the steel they use to make blades. Production companies typically have their blades laser cut from large sheets of steel. So the steel they make a blade from will likely cost a lot less than if you bought an individual piece.

As far as the price of a finished blade, there are several factors involved. Greater mentioned a few in post #2, but there are others. Like shipping the steel from the steel maker to the knife making factory. If for example the steel is exclusively made in one country, and the blades are made in a different country, then shipping the steel will cost more than if the steel and blades are made in the same country.
 
Sam Wilson said:
You are not "being played." It is not just machinability, but different heat treat protocols, grinding protocols, steel size constraints, and many other things that eat up consumables and time, in addition to wear and tear on humans and machines. Not to mention tool life and cost of raw materials, up to and including alloying elements and where they come from.

Premium steels cost more, no question. On a small folder or fixed blade the cost for the blade alone (raw material) can easily range from a couple of dollars to $40-$50, or much more. Don't forget to factor in shipping and abrasives. Believe it.



Sam😎👍👍
Click to expand...
YES! Thank you for the... mind expansion!
Considering all the factors that you mention, I see that my focus has limited my vision. I can now find (more) peace in the outrageous prices that I consistently and happily fork over!
Thank you all for your generous positive responses!

And Happy Whatever! ;)
 
Consider it a parabolic or even logarithmic progression when it comes to regarded relative "superness" of a steel vs price of the final product - at least in many instances. Of course, any Chris Reeve (for example) would still run for 300+ if they used just plain 420. Brand, marketing, and actual process effort would see to that.
 
I have managed several machine shops and as others have stated the raw steel isn't what usually makes a huge difference in cost. It only really factors in when making fewer parts.

But different materials will go through bits and belts differently and it can take a lot longer to process one material vs another (think machining aluminum vs hardened steel).

While some knives do seem ridiculously priced it would be nearly impossible for anyone to make one of these on their own starting with no equipment and factoring how much time it would take for you to produce a good product.
 
I have no knowledge of machining and verry little knowledge or experience with steels and knife making.

With that said, it would not surprise me at all to learn that all the characteristics that make a steel formulation great for a knife in use also make it difficult to make into a knife.

The cost of raw bars of a steel cannot be the only thing determining the price of a premium knife. The cost of replacing cutting tools, such as machining bits on down to abrasive belts must also be factored in. I imagine that working in 440C brings les wear and tear on the shop tools than one of the trendy high-alloy formulations do. I can imagine a semi-production shop drop-forging 440C into near finished shapes requiring reduced time to grind and finish into a presentation quality knife. The newer, advanced alloys cannot be stamped out that way I have been told.

The TV program "Forged In Fire", often shows the bladesmiths quenching a red-hot blade into a pipe full of oil for a few seconds . . .and apparently leaving it at that. Many sophisticated steels require a more complex hardening process involving controlled cycles of heating and cooling from red-hot to sub-zero cryo-soaking for hours.

All these factors must affect the final cost to the a knife maker and then it must be marked-up to a price point that makes commercial sense for their operation.

There is probably a way to coat the cutting edge with synthetic diamond, but only NASA or the CIA would ever think it to be worth the trouble or cost.
 
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Another thought: Look for blade steel as raw bars at knife shows and gun shows. Then look for the same online through knife maker supply sites and maybe on e-Bay. Figure the wholesale price to be ~1/2 that.
 
Beelzebubba said:
I'm trying to find comparative knife steel prices, like for pieces of 6"x2"x1/8" of every type of steel.
I keep hearing that the type of steel can make big $ difference. Show me how much a blade sized piece actually costs! I can't find that one anywhere.
Yeah, I know that machineability and such has to be factored in, but I'm talking bare essentials. An extra ten minutes machining shouldn't cost that much...
All I hear is why I should spend more, always more, and I suspect that we are being played!
Click to expand...

Just buy cheap knives
Pay the price for high end stuff
Start making your own
 
Wonder what Damasteel really costs. On a typical $225 WE knife, the Damasteel version is always slightly more than double the cost @ ~550.
 
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