What ever happened to the Sabre blade?

C

Captain O

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During the post WWII period, through the early 1960's, many of the pocket knives sported eiher Clip or Saber blades. The Saber blade seems to have an internal rigid srength that would handle rough use, where a lesser blade would snap off.

Why has the saber blade fallen out of favor?

Captain O
 
Because a flat grind cuts better? I hadn't really noticed the shift, but then most of my knives are of unknown ages.
 
Hey, what ever happened to the scimitar blade?! It was de rigeur in the 18th century! :D

I don't recall sabre-ground blades ever being all that common on pocket knives, certainly they were common to some patterns, though in some cases that might have been because it made them cheaper to produce. I'm not sure why, on a folding knife, you would want to increase the strength of a blade by widening it.
 
I'm not entirely sure it's fallen out of favor, quite yet. Buck uses a hollow-sabre grind on most (if not all) of their blades, as does Case on some blades, like the Folding Hunter's clip blade.

Given a choice between some of the currently available grinds from some Traditional makers, I'd often prefer the hollow-sabre grind over many of the full-flat grinds anyway, because too many of the flat grinds are still way too thick behind the edge (Queen comes to mind, and some have had a similar complaint about GEC's flat-grind factory edges as well). No grind will cut very well, if the steel behind the edge is still too thick.

I'm also not sure the 'old' sabre grinds were inherently more durable either, but instead might've lent a false sense of security in them. I've seen a lot of old sabre-ground blades (like Case's older 6265 SAB Folding Hunter) with broken tips on them; I suspect the assumption of greater strength may've lead to many of them being misused (abused).


David
 
If you look at the original 3.5" blade Shur-Snap Colonial 1950 "fishtail" auto, you'll see a Sabre blade prominently ahead of the "bow-tie" guards. It seems as if the Sabre blade was nearly as popular as the Clip point. I can't, for the life of me, understand the reason for it's waning popularity.

Captain O
 
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One thing I never liked about the flat saber grind, especially on small blades as on pocket knives, is that if you use it enough to need to sharpen it a lot, the edge becomes even more obtuse very quickly. As it is, flat saber grinds are poor slicers compared to full flat grinds or hollow saber grinds (properly done, of course). I've used pocket knives for nearly 40 years now, and have never broken a full flat grind, hollow grind or any other blade. Therefore, to me at least, any perceived extra strength afforded by a flat saber grind is offset by its generally inferior cutting ability.

Jim
 
James Y said:
One thing I never liked about the flat saber grind, especially on small blades as on pocket knives, is that if you use it enough to need to sharpen it a lot, the edge becomes even more obtuse very quickly. As it is, flat saber grinds are poor slicers compared to full flat grinds or hollow saber grinds (properly done, of course). I've used pocket knives for nearly 40 years now, and have never broken a full flat grind, hollow grind or any other blade. Therefore, to me at least, any perceived extra strength afforded by a flat saber grind is offset by its generally inferior cutting ability.

Jim
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Good point. I've seen a very few, usually cheaply-made, small Traditional pocketknives with sabre-grinds on already very narrow blades. When I've picked them up at knife shows or wherever, and noticed it, I've immediately put them back on the table. ;)

I tend not to like the 'California Clip' blades on small stockman & Muskrat patterns for the same reason; they're frequently too thick and too narrow to be useful as a fine slicer. In recent years though, at least Case has executed such blades with a much thinner grind (hollow), and they're pretty good.


David
 
The saber grind drastically increases rigidity of the blade. On a folder, the weak area is the tang/pivot portion and a stiffer blade is of little importance. A flat grind will slice easier and hold up better due to more steel backing the edge; a hollow grind is easier to sharpen but won't last through as many sharpenings as there is less steel backing the edge.

A thick blade can be made to slice very well. I have hatchets, axes, and kukris capable of slicing free hanging paper cleanly (as I test all of my blades for edge) and these are quite thick. It is the edge grind itself that does the work, and this needs to be honed at equal angles on both sides (use a Lansky type system or a guide if freehand honing) AND STROPPED to remove the wire edge. (The most important and often ignored step in achieving a good cutting edge) A blade honed with a 25 degree bevel will last longer and a 17 degree bevel will be very sharp but won't hold up as well.

:)
 
Thanks Jack!

I should have added "I prefer flat ground blades." :)

 
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Just a few pocket sabres old and new. In a way, the puukko with its scandi grind is a kind of sabre, don't see their popularity on the wane:D One of the best 'if you can only have one' outdoors knives available
 
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James Y said:
One thing I never liked about the flat saber grind, especially on small blades as on pocket knives, is that if you use it enough to need to sharpen it a lot, the edge becomes even more obtuse very quickly. As it is, flat saber grinds are poor slicers compared to full flat grinds or hollow saber grinds (properly done, of course). I've used pocket knives for nearly 40 years now, and have never broken a full flat grind, hollow grind or any other blade. Therefore, to me at least, any perceived extra strength afforded by a flat saber grind is offset by its generally inferior cutting ability.

Jim
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same here.
 
As to the question of whether or not a saber grind has more rigidity or strength than a flat grind...

I think a slipjoint is more vulnerable at the joint than in the blade.
 
gunstockjack said:
The saber grind drastically increases rigidity of the blade.
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Yep. Saber grind blades make better crowbars, but that's not what I carry a knife for.

A thick blade can be made to slice very well.
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But not as well as a thin blade.

I have hatchets, axes, and kukris capable of slicing free hanging paper cleanly (as I test all of my blades for edge) and these are quite thick.
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I'm sorry, but that's not much of a test. Neither is shaving hair. Thin, relatively soft material which offers little to no resistance to the passage of the blade once the edge has parted the material. I loved the story someone posted about talking to Sal Glesser at a show. Sal first sliced a brochure with one of his display knives. Then he sliced through it again with the corner of the spine of the same knife. Then he sliced through it a third time with the edge of another brochure. It's all about technique.

It is the edge grind itself that does the work,
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True as long as the material you are cutting is thin and flexible. Try cutting down triple layer corrugated cardboard with a thick blade. You'll soon discover that while the edge itself does the cutting, the edge bevels do the work of forcing the material apart to make room for the blade to pass.

and this needs to be honed at equal angles on both sides (use a Lansky type system or a guide if freehand honing) AND STROPPED to remove the wire edge. (The most important and often ignored step in achieving a good cutting edge)
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Or, you could do like I do and simply avoid creating a wire edge in the first place.

A blade honed with a 25 degree bevel will last longer and a 17 degree bevel will be very sharp but won't hold up as well.

:)
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I certainly can't argue with that.
 
They can still be found and Case makes a dandy baby cattle knife with a sabre clip I think it's the 53. It's a little to stubby for fat hand.
 
I love a nice sabre-ground blade, regardless of it's pros and cons. :)

Schrade half sabre blade:
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Case red bone:
akzogi.jpg
 
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